Unmentioned in this very interesting essay by Michael Barrington [. . . pauses to make a note to check out his byline . . .] is a hidden factor on why one short story (or essay or CNF or poem or hybrid) might get accepted and published = "F.O.T.E."
Raise your hand if you've had this experience?
After your well-crafted piece was rejected and the issue has been released, you check out the lit mag's T.O.C. and begin to read the stories and other material that DID make it into the issue - - instead of your rejected ms. Consumed by curiosity, you continue to read piece after piece, noticing that many are too boring to finish or not nearly as well as thought out as yours. "Why and how did this 'lesser light' sneak under the wire when yours was far better in every respect?" . . . . . . . . . Possibly it's another case of "F.O.T.E." a.k.a. tit for tat. The Friend of the Editor has been helpful to this EIC, is owed a favor, or is "a mutual."
* * * Moral of the story: Please don't take a rejection personally. Your writing will be loved down the road. But many times it's obvious that very good work is pushed aside because another author is owed a favor.
Or because the volunteer readers don't know a good story when they read one. I read for a lit mag and was blown away by a subtle but gorgeous piece of writing I gave a thumbs up. The two other readers gave it a thumbs down. Said the didn't get it. I thought w-t-f? It doesn't seem fair and yet those are the realities of this industry, I suppose.
The same thing happens with literary prizes. I was once on a prize committee and thought the book chosen in the category we read for was atrocious. The rest of the judges disagreed.
It is so subjective in many ways, just like our individual tastes. But within a genre, let’s say, literary versus thriller, mystery, fantasy, or romance, I hope we’re comparing oranges to oranges.
Thank you, Polly. Good to keep "the volunteer readers" in mind! * * * * FYI: At Rattle, Tim always emphasizes that the zine does not use "readers" - - that HE reads every poem submitted along with his co-editor.
You're spot on , Donna! If you know the writing is good, and have been published fairly widely, then logically, the editor is an idiot--or just doesn't know good writing [well, same thing]
Recently submitted a fantasy piece. A lady editor (undergrad student?) actually replied stating that I failed to develop my main plot and the story arc etc etc. I had to laugh. The story went right over her head! Missed the fact it was pure fantasy. It has since been picked up by a couple of mags. and published in an anthology.
The story that first put me on the fiction map, that was anthologized and singled out by reviewers, didn't win a contest and a judge actually wrote "I don't understand what this story is about." I think it might have been too "ethnic" for his taste.
Tnx for your comments Andrew. I usually have a fairly strict regimen when writing my novels and I am just wrapping up my latest. I take a break occasionally because some crazy idea comes into my head in the form of a short story, so I usually reserve time on a weekend to write it. Then I beat myself up on Monday morning for not working on my novel! Such is life.
I stopped book #28 during the pandemic and turned to short stories and personal essays which is where my career sort of began and have had 95 publications (including reprints) in the last three+ years. Its lovely to see work go into print so quickly, unlike the time it takes for a book of any genre.
This was interesting. Your experimental process sounds like the way I approach writing. I write one or two pieces each week (either fiction or CNF) and spend the rest of my time editing and submitting. Last year, I wrote 75 new pieces and 37 of them were published. Thanks for sharing your experience with us. Your memoir looks intriguing!
Life is strange and so is the creative impulse. As a teenager I wanted to be a writer and in my 20s wrote poetry, some short stories and a couple children's books but never tried to get any published until I took a publishing workshop at NYU and showed a novel to an editor of a major publishing house who was lecturing there I had written inspired by the 2 years I spent in the war zone of Cambodia prior to the time of the Killing Fields. When it was kindly rejected, I never tried another publisher--I just stopped writing as impatience has long been one of my great weaknesses. Then in 2018 I entered a fee-free contest and had a poem published in a print anthology, and that opened the creative floodgates: accepted for publication since 432 times in 224 lit mags, mostly poems and a few essays. But what most surprised me was a brief memoir I wrote about the NDE I had in 1971 when I almost drowned: Titled 'The Day I Remembered My Soul', it's been accepted the past 2 years by 12 online journals and another 5 in print [including an anthology on suicide.] It seems to resonate more than I thought it would.
I continuously suffer from this problem. It's very difficult to break into the minds of editors. Last year I got rejection 15 times, whereas my beta readers liked the stories. The struggle is real
Assume it's not the short story itself, Jeet, already commented on by beta readers and praised - - - but perhaps how you are targeting these submissions.
Also keep track of the coded language of rejection notes in your writing diary.
If a rejection ends with "best of luck on finding a home," the translation is "we are NOT encouraging you here."
If a rejection is more personal - - "we wanted you to know this made it into the final round" - - the editors are keeping the door open.
If a blunt rejection arrives within 48 hours, then cross that lit mag off your list and move on.
Thanks for sharing. Lots of food for thought. In 2007, I wrote a memoir about home care for my elderly mom. After 100 queries, I got an agent, but she was unable to sell my book. That's part of what is so discouraging in the profession. In this case, I DO know why though. Death is a difficult sell. Publishers think no one wants to read about death. Murder, sure. But death with dignity? It's great that Becky allows us this space to share insight on the industry.
My memoir on being my terminally ill mother's sole caregiver is forthcoming in November 2025. It's called "Cancer Courts My Mother." One of my current books (published in 2024) is all about people who have committed suicide. Readers are very interested in DEATH. Don't give up, Alexandra. Best of luck to you!
Yes, Alexandra-- we live in a 'soul-less' secular age which keeps trying to deny the reality of death, probably because it sees nothing 'beyond'. For most of history it seems people mourned but could see death as a transition, not extinction. We 'moderns' are perhaps the most shallow, superficial humans in history.
I have worked and reworked several stories before writing new ones, trying to revamp them, figure out why they keep getting rejected. Other times new stories have poured out of me and gotten picked up quickly. It truly is a mystery, but one thing I know is that my craft keeps improving. Years ago it was my dream to be published in a lit mag. At the time I didn't know how difficult that was to accomplish, but here I am years later with a dozen acceptances. Not much, but better than zero. I know that list will continue to grow.
It is a tough world, publishing.But I can give you one very clear reason youve had a hard time getting published. Actually, two. With all due respect, you are garrulous and self-indulgent. In the piece you wrote here, I have no idea about your content or your characters. You join me and many others since the emergence of computers- the ability to write fast.
Computers are of great help when a writer is hot and pouring out ideas or dialogue or controlled streamoconsciousness we can later pare down. But computers can be deadly for writers infected with the TMI syndrome.
Question. You have written ten novels you say. You published them? With whom? What are they about? Youve published all kinds of stories and artcles Again- where? And: what are they about?
One more question. i have noticed writers talkiing about our own writing or more like- our own "Process"as if we were some cheese product. And early on you do mention some authors, a fair bounce from Chekov to Oates ( some might say from heaven to hell, but sometims it is simply a matter of taste).?
What I find most disturbing is. your description of trying to read so many mags and see what editors like or want or take and adust your work to them . It makes me wonder do this person have anything to say? Is she or he more in love with the IDEA of being a published writer, or do they have something to say to enlarge a reader's world?
Ah, mate, you nailed it with that last paragraph! Being a slow learner, it has taken me a lifetime [well, 70 some years] to realize that the ego is the enemy of the soul. And even if you don't think you have a consciousness, i.e., a mind, apart from the brain, then look at it as a 'higher self'. The only thing that matters is transcendence--your words entering into another mind and perhaps [not always] sparking a reaction, an awareness...a bit of light.
But every soul in this mortal world is isolated-- no one can fully know another, not even oneself. Love is a bandage on the soul's solitude, but we are each unique beings, and each here for reasons particular to themselves. That is why creativity, the real thing and not some cyber/AI crap, is miraculous--and rare. Cannot be taught, cannot be bought, can only be given it seems---by whom or what I can't say.
I go back and forth on ths latter thought- that creativity can't be taught. I'm in the paradoxical situation moving into my EIGHTIES, of being a very creative writer who also , truth be told, fell in love wth teaching in my forties despite the fact that I hated most of m high school AND college English teachers. Maybe hate is too a strong.Let's say I strongly disdained their mediocrity, their inner mendacity, their established lassitude, and almost complete lack of audacity. But the few jewels in the cesspool were wonderful, grudgingly approving, and some even occasionally ENJOYING my stories, AND fiinding humane value in the content (or discontent).
What I learned about writing was by reading writers of fiction and poetry from a wide range range of countries and psysches. I can tell you more at another time if you send me your email, my favorite writers include the famous, the unknown, the blacklisted and the geographically and racially omitted who somehow still have the astounding notion that only white writers are worth publishing and distributing, and that those writers are mostly from the USA, England, and occasionally Ireland, France, Germany, and, once upon a time, Russia. You can easily spot this intransigence even in most college anthologies, that is those who are stiI whoring themselves. to the TWITTERING TITTERING INSTANTGRAMMAPOPPAP. land of the EXCERPT though I wonder how teachers now can analyze student excerptese.
Might I add: Once I had a great story that kept getting rejected. So, I rewrote it with a male protagonist (instead of a woman) and it got snatched right up, sad to say......
Jody, look on the bright side, please. Your story WAS accepted - and maybe there were other reasons such as you found the right lit mag for it. In any case, congratulations. :-D
Michael, There are so many workshops, webinars, MFA to tell us HOW TO.... blablabla. This piece was really helpful, comprehensive: your personal experience and an insight about the publishing industry. Many writing workshops repeat the same concepts, techniques, advice, creating a sense of sameness. As a 77-year-old aspiring writer, I'm encouraged by your experience. I used self-publishing on KDP Amazon for my first book. Their categorization is restrictive. Writing about my grief ( not a memoir) It sent the book to self-help! What do you think about using software to improve writing (If you don't lose control of its suggestions). I use ProWritingAid because of its 27 reports.analysis. It helped, but I have to learn to control myself to control it.
Tnx for your response. I too use ProWritingAid, but its AI and you have to recognise its limitations. And I concur with your comments about MFA programs but feel even stronger about the quality and kind of writers they are producing.....a sausage factory comes to mind!
Amen, man! You hit the metaphor on the head-- how did we ever get literature going back to Homer and the Bible and Shakespeare without MFA programs??? Heck, those goes didn't even go to college!
But seriously, Michael, would you agree the real problem is that the MFA sausages who become editors then can't seem to 'see' true creativity anymore?
I would not compete on how the sausage smells. But it's a vicious circle as Nol mentioned. a revolving door. then they complain that literary fiction is in decrease by publishers and it's even worse if you go by readers. Small press are not really better. market, market, market....
Ah, you make me blush!!! And kudos to you--I see we both have poems in the Fall 2024 issue of Literary Cocktail Magazine--and they've published in print too!
Yes! I'm ordering the print issue-- I'm happy to seem my words online and I know far more folks will read it there, but I just can't seem to cuddle with my laptop like I can a book or magazine.
This is great! Love to hear about other writers' processes and how they grow in their craft. I'm always looking for ways to improve my writing, but I don't ever see myself getting to a Joyce Carol Oates level... haha!
I always wish I had more time to write. If I could invest time into it every day, instead of being busy with schoolwork (I'm a university student), I'm sure I could improve a lot quicker.
Tnx for your kind words. A a university student you already have your work cut out for you and it probably eats up most of your time. Just a suggestion, but if you use a different paradigm and think of writing time as moments to relax and have some creative fun, then you might be able to set aside an hour a week and focus on your craft.
Agreed. It's a crazy business we are in!
It gets crazier every year and I've been publishing books since the early 90s.... I try to roll with the punches, as the song goes.
Unmentioned in this very interesting essay by Michael Barrington [. . . pauses to make a note to check out his byline . . .] is a hidden factor on why one short story (or essay or CNF or poem or hybrid) might get accepted and published = "F.O.T.E."
Raise your hand if you've had this experience?
After your well-crafted piece was rejected and the issue has been released, you check out the lit mag's T.O.C. and begin to read the stories and other material that DID make it into the issue - - instead of your rejected ms. Consumed by curiosity, you continue to read piece after piece, noticing that many are too boring to finish or not nearly as well as thought out as yours. "Why and how did this 'lesser light' sneak under the wire when yours was far better in every respect?" . . . . . . . . . Possibly it's another case of "F.O.T.E." a.k.a. tit for tat. The Friend of the Editor has been helpful to this EIC, is owed a favor, or is "a mutual."
* * * Moral of the story: Please don't take a rejection personally. Your writing will be loved down the road. But many times it's obvious that very good work is pushed aside because another author is owed a favor.
Or because the volunteer readers don't know a good story when they read one. I read for a lit mag and was blown away by a subtle but gorgeous piece of writing I gave a thumbs up. The two other readers gave it a thumbs down. Said the didn't get it. I thought w-t-f? It doesn't seem fair and yet those are the realities of this industry, I suppose.
The same thing happens with literary prizes. I was once on a prize committee and thought the book chosen in the category we read for was atrocious. The rest of the judges disagreed.
It is so subjective in many ways, just like our individual tastes. But within a genre, let’s say, literary versus thriller, mystery, fantasy, or romance, I hope we’re comparing oranges to oranges.
Thank you, Polly. Good to keep "the volunteer readers" in mind! * * * * FYI: At Rattle, Tim always emphasizes that the zine does not use "readers" - - that HE reads every poem submitted along with his co-editor.
Interesting possibility, LindaAnn. My thought has usually been that the editor just had very poor taste!
You're spot on , Donna! If you know the writing is good, and have been published fairly widely, then logically, the editor is an idiot--or just doesn't know good writing [well, same thing]
Nolo, there will always be lit-mag "mutuals" who are trading favors. Always.
Donna, well, yes, that, too. But the problem of "mutuals" is wide spread. And I could name names . . . but I won't.
Recently submitted a fantasy piece. A lady editor (undergrad student?) actually replied stating that I failed to develop my main plot and the story arc etc etc. I had to laugh. The story went right over her head! Missed the fact it was pure fantasy. It has since been picked up by a couple of mags. and published in an anthology.
The story that first put me on the fiction map, that was anthologized and singled out by reviewers, didn't win a contest and a judge actually wrote "I don't understand what this story is about." I think it might have been too "ethnic" for his taste.
You're very welcome! And thank you for your kind words. Kindred spirits?
Tnx for your comments Andrew. I usually have a fairly strict regimen when writing my novels and I am just wrapping up my latest. I take a break occasionally because some crazy idea comes into my head in the form of a short story, so I usually reserve time on a weekend to write it. Then I beat myself up on Monday morning for not working on my novel! Such is life.
I stopped book #28 during the pandemic and turned to short stories and personal essays which is where my career sort of began and have had 95 publications (including reprints) in the last three+ years. Its lovely to see work go into print so quickly, unlike the time it takes for a book of any genre.
This was interesting. Your experimental process sounds like the way I approach writing. I write one or two pieces each week (either fiction or CNF) and spend the rest of my time editing and submitting. Last year, I wrote 75 new pieces and 37 of them were published. Thanks for sharing your experience with us. Your memoir looks intriguing!
Hey, Tracie, keep it up! That's an awesome ratio!
Pretty good ratio!
Life is strange and so is the creative impulse. As a teenager I wanted to be a writer and in my 20s wrote poetry, some short stories and a couple children's books but never tried to get any published until I took a publishing workshop at NYU and showed a novel to an editor of a major publishing house who was lecturing there I had written inspired by the 2 years I spent in the war zone of Cambodia prior to the time of the Killing Fields. When it was kindly rejected, I never tried another publisher--I just stopped writing as impatience has long been one of my great weaknesses. Then in 2018 I entered a fee-free contest and had a poem published in a print anthology, and that opened the creative floodgates: accepted for publication since 432 times in 224 lit mags, mostly poems and a few essays. But what most surprised me was a brief memoir I wrote about the NDE I had in 1971 when I almost drowned: Titled 'The Day I Remembered My Soul', it's been accepted the past 2 years by 12 online journals and another 5 in print [including an anthology on suicide.] It seems to resonate more than I thought it would.
I look forward to reading your work. I am so glad you shared this here!
"Dark" writing gets attention, Nolo. Congratulations on all of your successes.
I continuously suffer from this problem. It's very difficult to break into the minds of editors. Last year I got rejection 15 times, whereas my beta readers liked the stories. The struggle is real
Assume it's not the short story itself, Jeet, already commented on by beta readers and praised - - - but perhaps how you are targeting these submissions.
Also keep track of the coded language of rejection notes in your writing diary.
If a rejection ends with "best of luck on finding a home," the translation is "we are NOT encouraging you here."
If a rejection is more personal - - "we wanted you to know this made it into the final round" - - the editors are keeping the door open.
If a blunt rejection arrives within 48 hours, then cross that lit mag off your list and move on.
Best of luck to you. You WILL get there!
Well, let's not assume every editor HAS a mind, Jeet....
Please assume the EIC has many "mutuals" tugging on his/her sleeve, Nolo.
Thanks for sharing. Lots of food for thought. In 2007, I wrote a memoir about home care for my elderly mom. After 100 queries, I got an agent, but she was unable to sell my book. That's part of what is so discouraging in the profession. In this case, I DO know why though. Death is a difficult sell. Publishers think no one wants to read about death. Murder, sure. But death with dignity? It's great that Becky allows us this space to share insight on the industry.
My memoir on being my terminally ill mother's sole caregiver is forthcoming in November 2025. It's called "Cancer Courts My Mother." One of my current books (published in 2024) is all about people who have committed suicide. Readers are very interested in DEATH. Don't give up, Alexandra. Best of luck to you!
Yes, Alexandra-- we live in a 'soul-less' secular age which keeps trying to deny the reality of death, probably because it sees nothing 'beyond'. For most of history it seems people mourned but could see death as a transition, not extinction. We 'moderns' are perhaps the most shallow, superficial humans in history.
Writing well is hard. Period.
I have worked and reworked several stories before writing new ones, trying to revamp them, figure out why they keep getting rejected. Other times new stories have poured out of me and gotten picked up quickly. It truly is a mystery, but one thing I know is that my craft keeps improving. Years ago it was my dream to be published in a lit mag. At the time I didn't know how difficult that was to accomplish, but here I am years later with a dozen acceptances. Not much, but better than zero. I know that list will continue to grow.
It is a tough world, publishing.But I can give you one very clear reason youve had a hard time getting published. Actually, two. With all due respect, you are garrulous and self-indulgent. In the piece you wrote here, I have no idea about your content or your characters. You join me and many others since the emergence of computers- the ability to write fast.
Computers are of great help when a writer is hot and pouring out ideas or dialogue or controlled streamoconsciousness we can later pare down. But computers can be deadly for writers infected with the TMI syndrome.
Question. You have written ten novels you say. You published them? With whom? What are they about? Youve published all kinds of stories and artcles Again- where? And: what are they about?
One more question. i have noticed writers talkiing about our own writing or more like- our own "Process"as if we were some cheese product. And early on you do mention some authors, a fair bounce from Chekov to Oates ( some might say from heaven to hell, but sometims it is simply a matter of taste).?
What I find most disturbing is. your description of trying to read so many mags and see what editors like or want or take and adust your work to them . It makes me wonder do this person have anything to say? Is she or he more in love with the IDEA of being a published writer, or do they have something to say to enlarge a reader's world?
Ah, mate, you nailed it with that last paragraph! Being a slow learner, it has taken me a lifetime [well, 70 some years] to realize that the ego is the enemy of the soul. And even if you don't think you have a consciousness, i.e., a mind, apart from the brain, then look at it as a 'higher self'. The only thing that matters is transcendence--your words entering into another mind and perhaps [not always] sparking a reaction, an awareness...a bit of light.
But every soul in this mortal world is isolated-- no one can fully know another, not even oneself. Love is a bandage on the soul's solitude, but we are each unique beings, and each here for reasons particular to themselves. That is why creativity, the real thing and not some cyber/AI crap, is miraculous--and rare. Cannot be taught, cannot be bought, can only be given it seems---by whom or what I can't say.
I go back and forth on ths latter thought- that creativity can't be taught. I'm in the paradoxical situation moving into my EIGHTIES, of being a very creative writer who also , truth be told, fell in love wth teaching in my forties despite the fact that I hated most of m high school AND college English teachers. Maybe hate is too a strong.Let's say I strongly disdained their mediocrity, their inner mendacity, their established lassitude, and almost complete lack of audacity. But the few jewels in the cesspool were wonderful, grudgingly approving, and some even occasionally ENJOYING my stories, AND fiinding humane value in the content (or discontent).
What I learned about writing was by reading writers of fiction and poetry from a wide range range of countries and psysches. I can tell you more at another time if you send me your email, my favorite writers include the famous, the unknown, the blacklisted and the geographically and racially omitted who somehow still have the astounding notion that only white writers are worth publishing and distributing, and that those writers are mostly from the USA, England, and occasionally Ireland, France, Germany, and, once upon a time, Russia. You can easily spot this intransigence even in most college anthologies, that is those who are stiI whoring themselves. to the TWITTERING TITTERING INSTANTGRAMMAPOPPAP. land of the EXCERPT though I wonder how teachers now can analyze student excerptese.
Might I add: Once I had a great story that kept getting rejected. So, I rewrote it with a male protagonist (instead of a woman) and it got snatched right up, sad to say......
Jody, look on the bright side, please. Your story WAS accepted - and maybe there were other reasons such as you found the right lit mag for it. In any case, congratulations. :-D
Thanks.
wow
Michael, There are so many workshops, webinars, MFA to tell us HOW TO.... blablabla. This piece was really helpful, comprehensive: your personal experience and an insight about the publishing industry. Many writing workshops repeat the same concepts, techniques, advice, creating a sense of sameness. As a 77-year-old aspiring writer, I'm encouraged by your experience. I used self-publishing on KDP Amazon for my first book. Their categorization is restrictive. Writing about my grief ( not a memoir) It sent the book to self-help! What do you think about using software to improve writing (If you don't lose control of its suggestions). I use ProWritingAid because of its 27 reports.analysis. It helped, but I have to learn to control myself to control it.
Tnx for your response. I too use ProWritingAid, but its AI and you have to recognise its limitations. And I concur with your comments about MFA programs but feel even stronger about the quality and kind of writers they are producing.....a sausage factory comes to mind!
Amen, man! You hit the metaphor on the head-- how did we ever get literature going back to Homer and the Bible and Shakespeare without MFA programs??? Heck, those goes didn't even go to college!
But seriously, Michael, would you agree the real problem is that the MFA sausages who become editors then can't seem to 'see' true creativity anymore?
Could not agree more!
I would not compete on how the sausage smells. But it's a vicious circle as Nol mentioned. a revolving door. then they complain that literary fiction is in decrease by publishers and it's even worse if you go by readers. Small press are not really better. market, market, market....
Nolo, your comments are some of the "greatest hits" on this forum. :-D
Ah, you make me blush!!! And kudos to you--I see we both have poems in the Fall 2024 issue of Literary Cocktail Magazine--and they've published in print too!
Yes, Nolo, we do! Let us drink a toast to Literary Cocktail Magazine! Hurrah!
Yes! I'm ordering the print issue-- I'm happy to seem my words online and I know far more folks will read it there, but I just can't seem to cuddle with my laptop like I can a book or magazine.
This is great! Love to hear about other writers' processes and how they grow in their craft. I'm always looking for ways to improve my writing, but I don't ever see myself getting to a Joyce Carol Oates level... haha!
I always wish I had more time to write. If I could invest time into it every day, instead of being busy with schoolwork (I'm a university student), I'm sure I could improve a lot quicker.
Thanks for sharing!
Hi Kyra,
Tnx for your kind words. A a university student you already have your work cut out for you and it probably eats up most of your time. Just a suggestion, but if you use a different paradigm and think of writing time as moments to relax and have some creative fun, then you might be able to set aside an hour a week and focus on your craft.
Thanks, Michael, that's so true. It's something I enjoy - not a chore! :)
You got time-- I didn't get published till my 8th decade....
That's amazing that you never gave up!
So true - I have my whole life ahead of me :)
I enjoyed reading about your experiment! Thank you for sharing!