This is a really great read, thank you so much... altho' I grew-up on College & University campuses, I never made it out as a graduate, having gone directly into a trade. Aside from a published book of poems in the Library of Congress (and a few 'zines & pulps here and there), I have very rarely interacted with editors. "Outsiders" like me (outside Academia/LitCrit magazine covers or well-attended readings is what I mean) are also strangers, in a sense, to the inner-workings of those who edit and publish poetry (or any writing, I reckon)... this piece is a splendid window-view into parts of that world that I would not have access to in my day-to-day work life and my after-work writing life. Your piece is both welcoming/supportive ~and~ cautionary/helpful, which is a thing of real value for those of us standing just outside the arc of light of known and acknowledged authors. Thank you again, Max, your words here have resonated with me and I look forward to digging in to The Pierian very soon. cheers, Josiah Leet
"We need to engage in a way that’s understood as authentic and meaningful, and our magazine and its communications need to focus on that."
I would say that for this writer, you have succeeded. After reading this story and becoming acquainted with The Pierian, I have submitted some work. How refreshing not to submit a cover letter that hints at my presumed "status" (am I an outsider? an insider? who decides?!). Your submission portal is better than Submittable, and I love the "Last Editor Touch" detail. Thanks for making a sub process that feels human.
This is a very interesting post and an unusual and useful reveal of one editor's thinking process. I have a couple of questions, though, one easy and one hard. The easy one first: When Max says his submissions portal strips out "funky formatting", that seems problematic to me, especially in poetry. Formatting the words on the page can be an essential aspect of a poem. How does Max account for that? Here's the hard question: how do you define "outsider"? Here, the definition seems to be "did not attend an MFA program". That feels heavy-handed to me. What about an older writer who sacrificed her whole life to be able to attend an MFA program? Is her poetry somehow less "outsider" for having waited to further her education until age 50? Let me put it another way: while I think it's laudable to create a playing field where all poets have a shot, no matter what's in their CV and where the poem speaks for itself, I don't think this level of blind submissions in itself is what we lack. What we lack in the modern era, in my opinion, are editors who are willing to work with writers, who see potential in the work and develop relationships with us, help us along, get involved with our writing. In other words, function as Editors with a capital E, Max Perkins style. In the modern era, writers in any genre now have to show up prepackaged and complete, much as musicians have to now basically produce their own records. Max clearly has the soul of such an Editor with a capital E. I would urge caution, however, with easy definitions of what "outsider" means.
What a great point. I have often felt frustration at this as well as a writer. However, having at one point worked as an editor, I imagine the weight of submissions is overwhelming for others as it was for me. I do not know a solution to that fact, but I desire one, too.
This is heartening to read. When I worked as a volunteer editor at a teeny lit mag, our process of editing and recruiting submissions was extremely high touch... and I have often felt frustrated by the anonymity and distance of the reviewing process when I submit my own writings to publications. So this was heartening to hear the intentionality and thoughtfulness in one editor’s methods. Bravo!
Thank you for this post, it is tremendously encouraging to read. Writing outside the literary establishment is hard for many reasons. In addition to fitting creative writing around (unrelated) day jobs and family life, and lacking a peer writing group to lean on for support and sustainable motivation (these are hard to form, manage, and sustain in and of themselves, even in today's virtual environments), coming up against an impersonal wall of literary magazine submissions is often, intimidating, disheartening and can feel like an erasure. Investing the time to submit becomes less and less of a priority for me, personally, for many of the reasons outlined in this post. It feels good to be seen here. Acknowledged. Empathized.
At the heart of this of course is your own discovery working with veterans Max: we all want the dignity of being taken seriously as writers (poets or prose).
Thank you for continuing your intentional efforts to be inclusive, equity-minded and to encourage a diversity of writers from a kaleidoscope of life experiences, in addition to literary institutions. We are out here. Kudos.
I used to edit Primavera, an award-winning literary journal. While I was the coordinator, we editors gave all writers who submitted personal comments on their work. I got thank you notes for my comments, angry responses, and also one parody of my rejection note. Most literary magazines simply send form letters without giving writers any hints about which poems came closest to getting accepted or any suggestions for improvement. Making such comments takes time, but I agree with Max Roland Ekstrom that the effort is worthwhile. I also like Ekstrom's emphasis on reaching out to writers beyond the MFA group. Best wishes for the spring!
Noticed: "The Pierian does not accept cover letters. . . . . We seek poems that stand apart.
We have a strict no simultaneous submissions policy. This helps us keep our workflow focused and ensures we are able to publish the best work we receive."
Noticed: no $ payment -- but The Pierian wants to lock down your submission because it works best for THEM. Hmmmm.
The no simul policy at The Pierian locks away your work until they decide. And submitting each poem individually rather than in a single document may be convenient for the editors, but it's a pain for submitters. Also the submission guidelines don't say how many poems you can submit at once—one? Five, ten? I will remain an outsider in Max's eyes, and will continue to refrain from submitting where simul subs are not allowed.
This is a really great read, thank you so much... altho' I grew-up on College & University campuses, I never made it out as a graduate, having gone directly into a trade. Aside from a published book of poems in the Library of Congress (and a few 'zines & pulps here and there), I have very rarely interacted with editors. "Outsiders" like me (outside Academia/LitCrit magazine covers or well-attended readings is what I mean) are also strangers, in a sense, to the inner-workings of those who edit and publish poetry (or any writing, I reckon)... this piece is a splendid window-view into parts of that world that I would not have access to in my day-to-day work life and my after-work writing life. Your piece is both welcoming/supportive ~and~ cautionary/helpful, which is a thing of real value for those of us standing just outside the arc of light of known and acknowledged authors. Thank you again, Max, your words here have resonated with me and I look forward to digging in to The Pierian very soon. cheers, Josiah Leet
"We need to engage in a way that’s understood as authentic and meaningful, and our magazine and its communications need to focus on that."
I would say that for this writer, you have succeeded. After reading this story and becoming acquainted with The Pierian, I have submitted some work. How refreshing not to submit a cover letter that hints at my presumed "status" (am I an outsider? an insider? who decides?!). Your submission portal is better than Submittable, and I love the "Last Editor Touch" detail. Thanks for making a sub process that feels human.
This is a very interesting post and an unusual and useful reveal of one editor's thinking process. I have a couple of questions, though, one easy and one hard. The easy one first: When Max says his submissions portal strips out "funky formatting", that seems problematic to me, especially in poetry. Formatting the words on the page can be an essential aspect of a poem. How does Max account for that? Here's the hard question: how do you define "outsider"? Here, the definition seems to be "did not attend an MFA program". That feels heavy-handed to me. What about an older writer who sacrificed her whole life to be able to attend an MFA program? Is her poetry somehow less "outsider" for having waited to further her education until age 50? Let me put it another way: while I think it's laudable to create a playing field where all poets have a shot, no matter what's in their CV and where the poem speaks for itself, I don't think this level of blind submissions in itself is what we lack. What we lack in the modern era, in my opinion, are editors who are willing to work with writers, who see potential in the work and develop relationships with us, help us along, get involved with our writing. In other words, function as Editors with a capital E, Max Perkins style. In the modern era, writers in any genre now have to show up prepackaged and complete, much as musicians have to now basically produce their own records. Max clearly has the soul of such an Editor with a capital E. I would urge caution, however, with easy definitions of what "outsider" means.
What a great point. I have often felt frustration at this as well as a writer. However, having at one point worked as an editor, I imagine the weight of submissions is overwhelming for others as it was for me. I do not know a solution to that fact, but I desire one, too.
This is heartening to read. When I worked as a volunteer editor at a teeny lit mag, our process of editing and recruiting submissions was extremely high touch... and I have often felt frustrated by the anonymity and distance of the reviewing process when I submit my own writings to publications. So this was heartening to hear the intentionality and thoughtfulness in one editor’s methods. Bravo!
Thank you for this post, it is tremendously encouraging to read. Writing outside the literary establishment is hard for many reasons. In addition to fitting creative writing around (unrelated) day jobs and family life, and lacking a peer writing group to lean on for support and sustainable motivation (these are hard to form, manage, and sustain in and of themselves, even in today's virtual environments), coming up against an impersonal wall of literary magazine submissions is often, intimidating, disheartening and can feel like an erasure. Investing the time to submit becomes less and less of a priority for me, personally, for many of the reasons outlined in this post. It feels good to be seen here. Acknowledged. Empathized.
At the heart of this of course is your own discovery working with veterans Max: we all want the dignity of being taken seriously as writers (poets or prose).
Thank you for continuing your intentional efforts to be inclusive, equity-minded and to encourage a diversity of writers from a kaleidoscope of life experiences, in addition to literary institutions. We are out here. Kudos.
I used to edit Primavera, an award-winning literary journal. While I was the coordinator, we editors gave all writers who submitted personal comments on their work. I got thank you notes for my comments, angry responses, and also one parody of my rejection note. Most literary magazines simply send form letters without giving writers any hints about which poems came closest to getting accepted or any suggestions for improvement. Making such comments takes time, but I agree with Max Roland Ekstrom that the effort is worthwhile. I also like Ekstrom's emphasis on reaching out to writers beyond the MFA group. Best wishes for the spring!
Sincerely,
Janet Ruth Heller, website is https://www.janetruthheller.com
Noticed: "The Pierian does not accept cover letters. . . . . We seek poems that stand apart.
We have a strict no simultaneous submissions policy. This helps us keep our workflow focused and ensures we are able to publish the best work we receive."
Noticed: no $ payment -- but The Pierian wants to lock down your submission because it works best for THEM. Hmmmm.
We're running a contest and paying $10 for winning poems with no fee to submit. Would absolutely love to see your work.
https://www.thepierian.org/fliers/tribute.pdf
I love what ware do and represent
The no simul policy at The Pierian locks away your work until they decide. And submitting each poem individually rather than in a single document may be convenient for the editors, but it's a pain for submitters. Also the submission guidelines don't say how many poems you can submit at once—one? Five, ten? I will remain an outsider in Max's eyes, and will continue to refrain from submitting where simul subs are not allowed.