I'm always amazed to read what editors have to put up with in some of the submissions they receive. There's a mix of appalling behavior and plain ignorance. Stupidity too. Don't these people realize they're shooting themselves in the foot or are they too conceited to even consider what the reaction to their rants is on the receiving end? I can excuse a beginning writer for pleading "please, please read me" or gushing "I love, just love! your mag", but the rest of it ... awful.
As a poet, I am immensely grateful to so many editors, who support writers with such generosity and professionalism. I have learned a lot about writing from rejection, suggestions and edits. I agree with Lev, that immaturity and clueless behavior are a problem throughout society, not only in literature. I do have a suggestion, that we slightly change the language of relationship between writers and editors. Instead of submission, acceptance, and rejection, we should use the words offering, acceptance, and decline. As in hospitality, when a host offers you refreshment, and you accept or decline. This is more dignified than language that suggests kneeling (submission), or judgmentalism (rejection). After all, I find that editors are careful to state cordial personal acceptance, while saying, "We love the quality of your work, but it doesn't fit into this issue. Please try again here."
Nov 9, 2023·edited Nov 9, 2023Liked by Mark Danowsky
Very wise.
Once rejected, move on. I can't tell you how many times in 30 years I've had an editor save my soul by rejecting something I hated later.
So much of this goes back to really getting to know the venue you are submitting to. It doesn't cost a lot to investigate a little before sending something.
And, from an editor's viewpoint, first - yes by gawd I have a blacklist. And second - the worst part of the job is sending a reject to someone you know or have published in the past and then finding out their true nature when, on getting the notice, they never speak with you again. I hate that part.
I can't believe the entitlement and rudeness in the poetry world, where one would imagine empathy to rule. I tell my workshop students to always be gracious, and to not take rejection personally. Why that is difficult for so many, I don't know. I have made personal commitment to work only with those poets, editors, publishers who can maintain mutual respect. I am grateful for the diligent editors who work for the love of the art in spite of the mean and petty nonsense.
Nov 9, 2023·edited Nov 9, 2023Liked by Mark Danowsky
I would never have imagined some of these. Being professional is important, and should be expected. The mind boggles. ETA and I bet any money the people doing these things bring the very longest poems to read at open mikes. LOL
Mark, this is great. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I had to laugh at some of the comments you got from submitters, as if they would make you change your mind.
Yikes. These very basic--and of course sensible--warnings remind me of the proliferating advice columns in major newspapers about proper airplane etiquette or how to treat people who work for you and so on. I wonder if the kinds of inappropriate and rude behavior listed here have become more prevalent during/since the pandemic? Or were they always at this level? A recent NYT piece about what not to do on subways evoked readers' responses that 1) it's all gotten worse and nobody knows how to behave anymore or 2) riding the subways in New York has always been a terrible experience.
Great points, Mark! Thank you for this succinct and thoughtful column. In my experience, 97% of our submitters are wonderful and respectful of the writer/editor relationship but that other 3%, wow. "Don't threaten your editors (or argue and plead with them)" should not have to be said. Arguing and pleading gains nothing, and threatening... yikes. Also, don't initiate a message chain on Submittable through your declined submission, except maybe in the event that you want to say thanks. If you need to communicate use the "contact us" information and send an email.
When I worked for a literary magazine, quite a few writers interested in submitting worried about copyright and ended up not sending anything despite being capable writers as they feared their work would be stolen or something. With AI pirating any content that isn’t hidden behind a paywall, the concern for “is my published content really mine?” becomes a growing concern.
Would adore to hear any editors of litmags and how you’re addressing the issue of datamining for ai models. It’s very wild west, but still important to discuss!
Here’s my “withdrawn the day after submission” story: I send a batch of poems out. I simultaneously submit, but often the submissions are staggered, that is, I send the batch to one or two places, then a week or two goes by and I send the same batch to another place. The months go by, rejections come in, and I reroute the batches to new places. Place that has had the work for seven months accepts a poem or two. I now must withdraw the accepted poem(s) from other places, some of which I may have just sent the poems to. I hate doing that. But it happens.
The only thing that kind of sat sideways with me is the thing about telling you something in a cover letter that you find disturbing. I mean, if someone is able to articulate the hell they write from or past, that seems interesting. Perhaps down to personal preference.
Maybe the positive angle is “let the work speak for itself”. Is there anything people add to their cover letters about context that you *want* to see?
I'm really shocked that most of these have to be said - and I'm sorry you have to deal with this. I may have been guilty of gushing once when I submitted to a journal that really was one of my favorites. And I gushed once after a poem I wrote was accepted by a journal I love (I was so excited), but that seems more acceptable. I'll watch the gushing from now on. Thank you.
I'm always amazed to read what editors have to put up with in some of the submissions they receive. There's a mix of appalling behavior and plain ignorance. Stupidity too. Don't these people realize they're shooting themselves in the foot or are they too conceited to even consider what the reaction to their rants is on the receiving end? I can excuse a beginning writer for pleading "please, please read me" or gushing "I love, just love! your mag", but the rest of it ... awful.
As a poet, I am immensely grateful to so many editors, who support writers with such generosity and professionalism. I have learned a lot about writing from rejection, suggestions and edits. I agree with Lev, that immaturity and clueless behavior are a problem throughout society, not only in literature. I do have a suggestion, that we slightly change the language of relationship between writers and editors. Instead of submission, acceptance, and rejection, we should use the words offering, acceptance, and decline. As in hospitality, when a host offers you refreshment, and you accept or decline. This is more dignified than language that suggests kneeling (submission), or judgmentalism (rejection). After all, I find that editors are careful to state cordial personal acceptance, while saying, "We love the quality of your work, but it doesn't fit into this issue. Please try again here."
Very wise.
Once rejected, move on. I can't tell you how many times in 30 years I've had an editor save my soul by rejecting something I hated later.
So much of this goes back to really getting to know the venue you are submitting to. It doesn't cost a lot to investigate a little before sending something.
And, from an editor's viewpoint, first - yes by gawd I have a blacklist. And second - the worst part of the job is sending a reject to someone you know or have published in the past and then finding out their true nature when, on getting the notice, they never speak with you again. I hate that part.
I can't believe the entitlement and rudeness in the poetry world, where one would imagine empathy to rule. I tell my workshop students to always be gracious, and to not take rejection personally. Why that is difficult for so many, I don't know. I have made personal commitment to work only with those poets, editors, publishers who can maintain mutual respect. I am grateful for the diligent editors who work for the love of the art in spite of the mean and petty nonsense.
I would never have imagined some of these. Being professional is important, and should be expected. The mind boggles. ETA and I bet any money the people doing these things bring the very longest poems to read at open mikes. LOL
I'm appalled that any of these points need to be made--this should all be basic common sense and courtesy. I'm sorry you have to put up with this!
Excuse me? You sometimes respond to a submission on the same day it was submitted? That’s almost enough to make me start writing poetry.
Mark, this is great. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I had to laugh at some of the comments you got from submitters, as if they would make you change your mind.
Thanks for this, Mark. I see we know some poets in common. ;-) DON’T FORGET THE ALL-CAPS THREE-LINE SUBJECT LINE REMINDING YOU WHAT NOT TO FORGET!
Yikes. These very basic--and of course sensible--warnings remind me of the proliferating advice columns in major newspapers about proper airplane etiquette or how to treat people who work for you and so on. I wonder if the kinds of inappropriate and rude behavior listed here have become more prevalent during/since the pandemic? Or were they always at this level? A recent NYT piece about what not to do on subways evoked readers' responses that 1) it's all gotten worse and nobody knows how to behave anymore or 2) riding the subways in New York has always been a terrible experience.
Great points, Mark! Thank you for this succinct and thoughtful column. In my experience, 97% of our submitters are wonderful and respectful of the writer/editor relationship but that other 3%, wow. "Don't threaten your editors (or argue and plead with them)" should not have to be said. Arguing and pleading gains nothing, and threatening... yikes. Also, don't initiate a message chain on Submittable through your declined submission, except maybe in the event that you want to say thanks. If you need to communicate use the "contact us" information and send an email.
When I worked for a literary magazine, quite a few writers interested in submitting worried about copyright and ended up not sending anything despite being capable writers as they feared their work would be stolen or something. With AI pirating any content that isn’t hidden behind a paywall, the concern for “is my published content really mine?” becomes a growing concern.
Would adore to hear any editors of litmags and how you’re addressing the issue of datamining for ai models. It’s very wild west, but still important to discuss!
Here’s my “withdrawn the day after submission” story: I send a batch of poems out. I simultaneously submit, but often the submissions are staggered, that is, I send the batch to one or two places, then a week or two goes by and I send the same batch to another place. The months go by, rejections come in, and I reroute the batches to new places. Place that has had the work for seven months accepts a poem or two. I now must withdraw the accepted poem(s) from other places, some of which I may have just sent the poems to. I hate doing that. But it happens.
The only thing that kind of sat sideways with me is the thing about telling you something in a cover letter that you find disturbing. I mean, if someone is able to articulate the hell they write from or past, that seems interesting. Perhaps down to personal preference.
Maybe the positive angle is “let the work speak for itself”. Is there anything people add to their cover letters about context that you *want* to see?
I'm really shocked that most of these have to be said - and I'm sorry you have to deal with this. I may have been guilty of gushing once when I submitted to a journal that really was one of my favorites. And I gushed once after a poem I wrote was accepted by a journal I love (I was so excited), but that seems more acceptable. I'll watch the gushing from now on. Thank you.
Thank you for this! Depersonalizing "rejection" is one of the most necessary and most challenging aspects of being a poet.