124 Comments

I’m to the point that I avoid lit mags that make these politicized statements. Reject me preemptively? I’ll reject you first.

Expand full comment

That's been exactly my response as well, Connie.

Expand full comment

Good idea

Expand full comment

Wow, telling folks not to submit because of what they believe is rather shocking. Policies should be about what kind of writing the lit mag publishes. Definitely a red flag not to submit there.

Expand full comment

I'm the editor of a lit mag based in a place where publishing certain content will be punishable by fines, jail, etc. So if someone submits a piece of (e.g. political) writing that, if we published it, would violate the National Security Law (or any other law), we need to weigh the potential consequences.

But we continue to say, "Anyone can submit." We would never tell someone not to submit based on what they *believe*.

Expand full comment

I see several troubling developments in writing and publishing. On one hand, a confusion between cultural beliefs and political beliefs. Confusion between the leader of the country and the country's citizens, who may often have views opposing the leader's. Confusion between sincere and honest writing and the editorial opinions of "authorities" or "experts." On the other hand, I also observe sagging standards of writing with errors of usage, spelling, and appalling turgid language. I see a deterioration in precise facts and using facts with logic. I usually have a lovely relationship with editors and lit mags I submit to. Becky, you say you've never seen this before. I haven't either, but it does exist in the history of US publishing, during the McCarthy era, when writers were blacklisted. That's what it's called. One of the chief instigators of hatred, according to what I've read, of that era, was Roy Cohn, one of Donald Trump's mentors. Unfortunately, we are now seeing very emotional, ugly remarks on both sides of various questions. This is not civilized, and I am concerned that kneejerk response to any opinion--including on personal matters--will accelerate devolution into Fascism, not assist any kind of social justice. Let's think carefully before we respond to anyone.

Expand full comment

Mary,

I think that you are right on point. The extent of censorship floating around our "zeitgeist" is alarming and disappointing. Also alarming is lack of any historical knowledge among present "influencers," who probably never heard of Roy Cohn (unless they saw 'Angels in America'). Thanks for your contribution, and thanks to Becky for her very thoughtful observations.

Expand full comment

I find surprising sloppiness in major media outlets like the NYT and the WaPo starting with lousy subject/verb agreement, inappropriate word choice, and repetition.

Expand full comment

Yes! Unfortunately, journalism standards have gone down, just like in the literary community.

Expand full comment

It's depressing and makes me feel snarky.

Expand full comment

The thing is, this isn't simply about whether or not you like thing X vs. thing Y, or if you go to church A vs. church B. Some of these "political causes" are real issues that affect the lives of real people. The genocide in Gaza is a real issue affecting real people in Palestine. The repealing of Roe v. Wade is a real issue affecting real women in the US. BLM is a real issue affecting Black and POC people in the US and Canada. Queerphobia is a real issue affecting queer and trans people around the world. Perhaps you may not think you're affected or impacted by them, but chances are there is someone in your orbit (and/or someone you care about) who is.

Sure, one may not think constantly about the military bombing of Palestinians, the overpolicing of people of colour, or discrimination against trans/queer people as they go about their daily lives (I sure don't), but I would think that it would be at least the bare minimum to recognize that the bombing of children and innocent civilians is wrong.

My point with all of this is that with certain conversations, this is more than simply just a matter of disagreeing over one's political opinion.

To circle back on topic, a lit mag is free to do whatever its editors/staff/founders want, whether it be accepting submissions from people who are against the genocide in Gaza, or accepting submissions only from people who are unequivocally in support of Israel. As a queer person of colour, if I come across a lit mag which all of sudden says they accept submissions only from people who hold white supremacist or queerphobic political views, then they probably wouldn't be a good fit for my work, submission requirement aside.

Likewise, if one takes umbrage at a lit mag only accepting, let's say, submissions from people who are opposed to the genocide in Gaza, then perhaps that lit mag wasn't a good fit for them in the first place.

Expand full comment

Thank you for yours and yolandes and others reply. I have been concerned since I joined substack at the number of older writers lamenting that they can't simply say anything in anyway anyhow without disagreement as if its 1984 to say something like, genocide is wrong and supporting a genocidal state is wrong. It feels very "back in my day". I think there are always, every decade, legitimate concerns about censorship and discourse. Basic human rights, or the right to advocate against them as if they are trivial, is not among them.

Expand full comment
May 7·edited May 7

Agreed! People's basic humanity and their rights to dignity and life are not "political issues." It is intellectually dishonest to pretend otherwise, especially as an excuse to dismiss valid human rights.

And if a lit mag wants to say things like "If you are opposed to transgender rights, please don't submit here," then that is totally their right and writers have many other lit mags they can submit to, including many with the opposing view. Especially for niche mags like queer lit mags, support of these basic human rights is a part of their mandate and if editorial staff feel the need to add that statement to their submission guidelines, clearly it's because submitters have not been reading the magazine closely to know what kinds of content would or would not be a fit there. So the editorial staff have chosen to clarify on their submissions page. Totally fair.

Without the exact example (which Becky has not provided), it's hard to say much more, but in contrast to most of the comments so far, as the issue has been described in the post I don't see anything wrong with this approach.

Expand full comment

You miss the point, but okay.

Expand full comment

No, I see the point very well.

The point is that for all of the complaints about the "politics" of lit mags, the truth is that everything is political.

It's not a matter of "can't we just agree to disagree?" or "we shouldn't let politics get in the way of publishing in lit mags!", it's a matter of the question of how much marginalized (BIPOC, disabled, queer) voices and lived experiences truly matter in the literary world.

Expand full comment

Thinking everything is political seems kind of sad to me. I don't think it's a "truth." I think it's an opinion.

Expand full comment
RemovedMay 7
Comment removed
Expand full comment

Or perhaps it is because everything isn't political. But your comment is as legitimate a guess as any other, I suppose.

Expand full comment

You may have the luxury of just calling it a guess. But for Black people in the US facing increasingly militarized police forces, or trans people facing policies trying to legislate them out of public life, it's not an opinion, or a guess - it's observable fact.

There are people who live outside of your orbit whose lives are politicized. All that's needed is the empathy to listen.

Expand full comment

You say that “everything is political,” then make the leap to”…and there is only one acceptable view, of which I am the arbiter.” If diversity of viewpoints is important, as it most definitely is, how do purity tests help accomplish that objective?

Expand full comment

Where did he say ”…and there is only one acceptable view, of which I am the arbiter"? I don't see that text (which you put in quotation marks as if it's a direct quote) anywhere in the comment you're responding to.

Expand full comment

He implied that by supporting the lit mag in question’s policy of accepting only the work of authors who pass their litmus test. He appears to agree with them. I did not intend to mislead by using quotation marks, sorry.

Expand full comment

And this "litmus test" is opposing the bombing of innocent civilians and children.

Something which on a basic human level, shouldn't even be a question.

If one takes umbrage with the question, "Do you oppose the bombing of innocent civilians and children?", then again, I don't know what else to say.

But to bring it back to the question of lit mags, if one supports the Israeli military campaign in Gaza and Palestine, why should they be published in a lit mag whose staff explicitly opposes it?

Expand full comment

Yes. Everything is political.

And you know what one acceptable view is? That bombing innocent civilians and kids is wrong.

Another acceptable view: Trans and queer people deserve to live in a society where they can authentically and safely thrive just like everyone else.

Another acceptable view: BIPOC people deserve to live in a society where they don't have to live in fear of institutional violence.

There's no "both sides" to these discussions. It's not a question of what team's going to win the Stanley Cup, or what movie is going to sweep the Oscars. If the question of what's happening in Gaza is a "both sides" or "agree to disagree" issue for you, then I don't know what to really say. Perhaps talk to a Palestinian who is willing to undertake the emotional labour to educate you on what is happening in Gaza. Or read interviews with Jewish folks like Dr. Alice Rothchild on Democracy Now (https://www.democracynow.org/2023/11/6/alice_rothchild_gaza_healthcare_crisis).

Put another way, let me ask the question again: How much do marginalized (BIPOC, disabled, queer) voices and lived experiences truly matter in the literary world? How much do Palestinian voices matter? For that matter, how much does my voice matter in the literary world?

Expand full comment

@Connie C -- I saw the comment you posted here earlier, which you deleted 15 minutes later (it disappeared right after I finished reading it). That was wise, as it was quite inflammatory and I was going to have some choice things to say in response. :)

Expand full comment

It was two minutes later, and I deleted it because I had either overlooked or Justin had later added something to his post which invalidated a point I made. But phew! Guess I dodged a bullet, eh?

Expand full comment

“Innocent people”

Replace with “terrorists”

Expand full comment

Innocent people.

Innocent. People.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xottY-7m3k

Expand full comment

Exactly!

Expand full comment

Before I say what I am going to say, a disclaimer: I am a firm believer of the political rights of cheeseburgers, as their plight has been underrepresented. My problem with Lit Mags taking sides of different political platforms is that discourse and debate will go out the window and instead of improving our ability to showcase narratives of those in need, we will dissuade them into nothing. It started with the media deregulation during the Regan years that propelled the creation of Fox News as an openly conservative format, to the now social media platforms playing to the algorithms that perpetuate the causes that you believe, and avoid the ones that don't. It is a sad state of affairs. And it also cuts into the writers side as well. I write about political issues related to the narratives and experiences of immigrants. In the process, I leaned the importance of not taking sides. If I paint this one side as bad and this other side as good, my prose, my creative effort is quickly transformed into propaganda. When you eliminate plurality, you eliminate the environment of discourse that feeds a democracy. And for a democracy to work, to thrive, even to survive, it has to accept that one group of ideas, political perceptions while it can win, it can also accept to lose. When you normalize "we only want these beliefs here," you will then censor, blacklist, ban, and at some point with marshmallows in hand, burn books. That's not the future I want. Boy, I now need that cheeseburger.

Expand full comment

Support onion rings!

Expand full comment

I know this is going to upset a lot of people, but I feel the need to say it and damn the consequences. But I really like potatoes.

Expand full comment

Well said. Very true and powerful points you make

Expand full comment

We are experiencing an updated form of McCarthyism in the 50’s, when people had to receive magazines in brown paper for fear of the censors who could have them imprisoned for what they read or wrote. Everyone was paranoid during that hyper-politicized period of our history—when even the mail carrier (who might be sneaking a peak under the brown paper to “report” you to the House UnAmerican Activities Committee) was feared.

Expand full comment

Yep.

Expand full comment

Yes, I saw this magazine and was shocked when I saw this restriction. Regardless of my views, it immediately screamed DON'T SUBMIT HERE to me, and I didn't.

Expand full comment

What's the name of the mag so I can avoid it.

Expand full comment

I’d like to know, too.

Expand full comment

I think it’s only fair to know who they are so those who don’t support xyz can avoid them. It’s tough enough out there. Even a clue- please? I’m pretty outspoken so I possibly already alienated them but I want to know.

Expand full comment

I can’t look up the recent tweets of every literary magazine out there, though…I’m trying.

Expand full comment

Forget the tweets, it’s in the submission guidelines.

Expand full comment

Thanks, but still doesn’t say who. There are a lot of literary magazines.

Expand full comment

That's what I'm thinking; I don't know which would be more upsetting, someone I DON'T agree with or someone I DO saying this.

Expand full comment

Thank you for remarking on this. The literary world is extremely divided right now, like the rest of this country.

I have felt very upset and discouraged about this.

Expand full comment

So have I, Robbi. It takes so long to research lit mags that are appropriate for my work, not to mention all the record-keeping required for tracking submissions, I'm starting to question the return on my time investment. Maybe the lit mag industry is heading toward a paradigm shift, as is the publishing industry. But no one knows what those paradigms are going to look like.

Expand full comment

I'm appalled by the if-you-don't-agree-with-me-don't-submit policy, just as I am by an everything-is-political policy. (One cup of non-political coffee, please.) Seems to me, this is turning into a relentless Manicheanism. Degrees and nuances are not allowed. We saw that at points in the 60s: if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Not a great way to make progress or to find common ground. That said, I don't want to publish, even accidentally in such a magazine. Can you imagine the kind of work they're going to publish with a policy like that? It will be whatever the current version of socialist realism happens to be. Really awful propagandistic stuff. Yeats has that marvelous sentence about how out of our quarrels with others we make rhetoric and out of our quarrels with ourselves we make poetry. This kind of exclusionary policy leaves no room for quarrels with ourselves, only for slogans shouted at the top of someone's lungs.

Expand full comment

Well said, George.

Expand full comment

Return on the investment is a good way to put it. That's one reason I basically stopped submitting to any lit mag with a reading fee. In that balance sheet, I do not want to go into the red.

Expand full comment

This is another sad example of how politics is taking over every aspect of our culture like an invasive species.

Expand full comment

Most sites now have a lengthy virtue signaling list of things they won't publish but adding the author's stance on political causes is, for starters, impossible to police. I generally will not submit to sites that clearly signal the bubbles they don't want pricked. I'm thinking of adding to my own site: 'In sure and certain punishment by death unto the third and fourth generation of your family and friends, do not submit anything that is at odds with anything the Editor may (or may not) have thought at any point in time.' That'll show 'em!

Expand full comment

I guess I'm in the minority, but I feel like having lit mags with political points of view is fine? Lots of important art movements with magazines associated have historically had political commitments (dada certainly did). there are a lot of lit mags; if some of them want to limit contributors to those with like minded policies, why not?

I just got published in a tiny little mag of poems opposing gun violence, for example. Obviously everyone who contributed opposes gun violence; I know it's not exactly the same thing, but it's not completely different either. There are just a lot of literary magazines, and they often have particular twists re submissions that can be formal (prose poems, haiku), regional/national, age based—or they can charge submission fees, which are a big barrier for many. I don't see why taking a political position is different or less legitimate.

And sure, many people may not have political positions, so they can just not submit to that journal, just like if you're not a resident of Canada, through no fault of your own, you can't submit to journals restricted to Canadians.

Expand full comment

I see what you're saying, but at the onus of those publications is their feelings about gun violence. There are pubs that are advocates to the environment, global warming. Or, anti immigration, abortion, hunting. There are also flat earth platforms. When you submit to them, yeah, congrats you got published. Is one better than the other? Of course not. But they represent a particular side of the spectrum. The problem is when you get the bigger publications, the ones that are supposed to represent a broad spectrum of the populace and they postulate these dictums. Should that be the case?

Expand full comment

I mean, we don't know which pub we're talking about...but none of the pubs that publish poetry are all that big? and the ones that make some pretense of being representative or big tent (like Rattle) tend to print poetry that is mainstream in particular ways that can be pretty exclusionary too. (they're not going to print my weird poem which is just a list of guns.)

Pubs often limit what they print in lots of ways that aren't necessarily about quality. I don't see why insisting on contributors with particular politics is any different than insisting on contributors from particular communities or countries or who have the money to spend on high entrance fees.

Expand full comment
May 7·edited May 7

Agreed! I don't see how this is any different than focusing a journal's content on, say, dogs. There are plenty of literary journals in the sea with other focuses that you can submit to if you don't give a whiff about dogs.

Expand full comment

I think you're underestimating poetry. There are small pubs that focus on poetry, but poetry as far as lit mags is concerned is mainstream. Look at most lit pubs and they will publish maybe 4 fiction stories, 3 non-fiction pieces, and then 12 poets.

Take your poem that is a list of guns.

When you mix the politics of the issue some pub may say no, because they are against gun glorification and abuse. Another pub may say, no, because they are all about the second amendment and your use of guns in this way perpetuates the misunderstanding of guns as a bad thing, and all those anti gun people just want to take all your guns. Then you get magazine X who thinks your gun poem is cool because it brings two sides of an equation. A dialogue of sorts between those against guns and those pro guns, where neither one understands each other. They publish it.

Hell breaks loose. Second amendment activist think that the anti gun people want to take ALL your guns, hunters are pissed, don't touch my guns. Cities do not want guns because it brings more crime. Then someone says, Guns don't kill people, people do. Someone now wants the managing editor of the publication to remove your poem, retract or they would lose their funding from the right, the left, the middle and even then national association for the protection of the rights of cheeseburgers (my own sense of bad humor). They retract your poem. The managing editor quits. And rather than have a dialogue, all we have are people suspicious about how polarized shit is getting. And all you wanted to do was write a cool poem about the names or guns, because you loved your dad's collection.

Expand full comment

you're literally referencing a scenario that is about actual genocide but putting guns over it and this is disingenuous.

Expand full comment

Purity tests are one of the least creative things I can imagine. Feels antithetical to having a literary magazine. But hey, we can’t all fit in Flat Earther Quarterly.

Expand full comment

I've been ok with "if you don't support..." I'd rather it be "this is our platforms position..." but both of those statements let me know if that is a mag I can support. If the mag says, if you don't support JK Rowling don't submit here, its not the mag for me. If it says, if you don't support trans rights don't submit here, it just may be. I absolutely do not want to submit anywhere that is supporting zionism or what Israel is doing to Palestine. But I do want to submit to places that are anti-genocide and ethnic cleansing of Palestine. If I see these statements clearly I can know. I am more more concerned about mags that have hard lines on barriers to marginalized voices, like demanding photos, or addresses if its not necessary or other information that can compromise an authors safety, or have other policies that can discourage the people they claim to support.

Regarding weird, I've been seeing that lately, "we want weird," from a lot of places, but not seeing a lot of weird. I've been seeing some good stuff I enjoy reading. But very little weird. It makes me truly wonder, what is it that they want out of weird, what calls them, what is the magic sauce.

Expand full comment

Do tell me if there are any magazines that believe in Israel’s right to exist and don’t believe HAMAS propaganda because those are magazines I want to submit to. Of course not being political is fine too.

Expand full comment

I don't support genocide nor do I wish to fight with genocide supporters on becky's post. Please do not comment on my comment any longer.

Expand full comment

There is no genocide by the way

Expand full comment
deletedMay 7
Comment deleted
Expand full comment
author

Hi Susan. No name-calling here. Please delete this comment or I will. Appreciate everyone's efforts to keep these discussions free of personal insults.

Expand full comment

I have relatives in Israel so I take it personally.

Expand full comment

I deleted the commenter. No problem.

Expand full comment

Susan blocked me before I could block her, which was my intent, but let me be clear to anyone reading this. It is antisemitism to claim that people speaking out against genocide are antisemitic. Also, anyone may google the original source for the convention on genocide and see the exact list of what conveys genocide; you can cross reference news stories, official documents, statements from Israeli officials for decades going back, up until this point and international reports against the list. Simply saying a genocide is not occurring does not make it so.

Further a good source for information is Jewish Voices for Peace, which have chapters all over the world.

I have no wish to engage anyone further on this topic on this post and will block anyone on this post who tries. But if you really feel the need to bring pro-genocide discourse, which includes deflection and denial, to me, I have several notes on my own page which already have rebuttals to these. Note, if you are an author who engages there that I might accidentally follow not remembering who you are, I might still block you.

Expand full comment

On the AI issue I'm always keeping an eye out on the discourse to try to refine my thoughts, except for when I saw a mag with a policy that if they catch (read, believe because its hard to actually catch) then you owe them $500 for every instance and you agree to this fee by submitting.

Though I don't use AI as they are known today, don't intend to, and currently (until convinced otherwise) don't support it for most use cases, this made me feel a certain way and I backed up out of there. I don't think that clause will scare off anyone who uses AI, its generally unenforceable, so it made me wonder what they thought they would be accomplishing and how it would affect other relations.

That said, I imagine if I were the editor of a mag I would fall into far far worse pitfalls, so I have empathy as to why.

Expand full comment

“No publication wants to publish a piece that feels like the same stuff everyone else has published.”

Most editors insist they want you to read past issues so you are familiar with the kinds of things they publish. How does this not mean that they want to publish work just like what they have already published? If your writing is “weird” in the context of what the magazine has already published, aren’t editors warning writers that that is the kind of weird they don’t want? I actually saw in a lit mag’s guidelines an editor emphasize that reading past issues would not tell you what you should send because they are looking for things unlike what they have previously published. But that sort of editorial statement is a real outlier.

Expand full comment

Regarding the issue "[political cause]" that Becky so carefully disguised, there really is no gray area here. No need for nuance at all. You're either on the right side of this issue (that is, the right side of history), or the wrong side. Let's be totally clear about this: Absolutely NOT, under NO circumstances, should fruit go in my tossed-green salad. It's as simple as that. If I were running a lit mag, I, too, would reject—prima f-cking facie—any writers who don't know better about fruit not going in salads. (To be clear, fruit in a *fruit* salad is fine.)

Expand full comment

Do you have an exception for tomatoes in your tossed-green salad? Or are they verboten also?

Expand full comment

Great question. I'm not sure who the wise guy is who labeled tomatoes a fruit. Tomatoes are so obviously not fruit. Ever hear of tomato punch? Tomato ice cream? Tomato popsicles? That's just ridiculous. Like UFOs and stuff. (So, yes, tomatoes are welcome in my green salads.)

Expand full comment

Whatever they are, how did they end up on hamburgers?

Expand full comment

I truly appreciate the thoughtful manner in which you came to that conclusion.

Expand full comment

I don't believe institutions/organizations—or lit magazines—unless they have a vested interest in or affiliation with a particular issue, should be expressing their views on political matters. If the heads of these organizations want to use their respective personal platforms to express their views, that's great, and totally appropriate, but it's getting to the point where everywhere I look, businesses are "taking a stand" on one issue or another. Is this really what they were established to do? Aren't they just asking for the kind of feedback that will become a distraction from their intended purpose? Of course, I understand this can be a grey line. If certain of our inalienable rights were clearly being impacted or denied, then I think everyone—businesses and individuals—should speak out about it. Very few things are entirely black and white in this world, but in my book, there's a lot of opportunistic posturing and inappropriate appropriation (i.e.. business leaders using their businesses to voice their personal opinions) and this is really muddying the cultural and political waters.

Expand full comment

Agree 100%.

Expand full comment

It's analogous to universities taking stances on this or that issue abroad: who says they have to state a foreign policy? That's not their mission.

Expand full comment