I accept up to 3 poems... I was accepting up to 5, but got swamped with submissions... Reduced to 3 and still most poets submit the max.. I ask for multiples because I really want to give writers the exposure they deserve and the packet allows more of a guarantee that I'll find at least one piece that fits the magazine and be able to publish the poet... But I've been known to often accept all the pieces in a packet... And my contributors have been fine with that....
A fascinating and thoughtful piece, Mark. I would never have considered withdrawing a piece I had submitted, that had been accepted...and I'm pretty sure I won't begin that practice, sticking with withdrawing a simultaneously subbed poem only for a sooner acceptance.
And yet, it is an extraordinary gift of respect for writers that you describe this possibility. Writers (increasingly, it seems, at least in my experience with one sector of the publishing world ) have so little agency in their own careers, and your discussion opens doors.
For me, when I send a poem or poems, it feels like that's my offering, my part of what I hope will be (but know may not be) a contract. It feels right - but yes, the many-months of consideration are prohibitive. The clearer preferences are from editors, the easier it is as a writer to navigate choices for what, or if, to send.
Carol, I really appreciate what you shared. I especially empathize and agree with your point about writing having limited agency over their work and career trajectory. It's in line with my intentions with this piece which, in many ways, boils down to fairness.
I agree, it never occurred to me to withdraw a piece that’s been accepted. I’m not sure how I feel about it, but it does feel empowering to know that’s an option.
I don't mind submitting two or three stories when that's in the guidelines because there's always that once chance that one of those stories will be accepted. I try to have a file with 2 and with 3 stories ready to go when I come across lit mags, all I have to do is upload and send.
I DO have a new beef with lit mags to the point where I've now added another lit mag to my list of places to avoid.
I'd love to hear back from any editors who are guilty of this -
For the love of little sweet kittens, if you are not telling submitters that you can't be bothered to let them know if they are rejected....REALLY? RUDE and UNPROFESSIONAL. I don't want to hear you don't have time. Bullshit. Keep a generic 'thank you but no thank you' draft email. It's not rocket science.
I'm noting a few comments about making lists of "lit mags to avoid" due to frustrating submission guidelines. This makes a lot of sense. It could be a wake up call for these lit mags.
My list is a mix of reasons;, shitty guidelines, charging to submit but not paying the people they publish, being ghosted after reaching out a few times, and one lit mag for totally trashing a piece - every word,line, paragraph, they hated all of it (when I went to look on their website, I realized the vibe was very hoity toity 'our shit doesn't stink/clutch my pearls', so no loss there) when I had asked for feedback.
Low fees to cover operations is fair. I'm not a huge fan or the practice but it may become semi-necessary in response to a future deluge of AI generated submissions (in order to deter junk subs).
I don’t mind paying a fee, I get the cost of operations, but I draw the line at charging to submit but not paying contributors. There are at least a ton of lit mags that don’t charge a fee, so I generally stick to those.
Thanks for the detailed essay analyzing the reasons for numeration in submission requests, Mark. I really appreciate the supportive and thoughtful stance you take towards the writer.
Here's a question on everyone's mind: "Why do lit mags want to read multiple pieces - - - after they have made the submission process unnecessarily complicated?"
EX: Certain lit-mags ask you to submit 3-5 poems all as separate files and each file designated POET NAME + title + line count . . . OR . . . Poem title + line count and it must be anonymous . . . OR . . . Title + designated theme . . . OR . . . send a single submission as a .pdf . . . OR . . . .!!!
Ahem! If I must spend 15 mins renaming all my files, that lit-mag EIC will probably only get ONE.
Anyone else here in support of "submissions simplified"??
Agreed. It's absurd. I wouldn't even bother (in most circumstances). Don't follow rules you don't agree with. The most likely outcome is rejection anyhow.
I have a list of places to avoid for various reasons, and the above is one of them. Submitting to lit mags is like job hunting and I shouldn't have to spend an hour refortmatting one story. I don't mind the random 'make sure pages numbered' or easy shit like that but basically all but re writing one piece and all that formatting? Oh hell no.
Exactly. If lit mags that insist on unreasonable submission guidelines stopped receiving submissions, then they would be forced to change their ways.
On the other hand, there's a possibility that these lit mags use this practice to deter slush submissions... That is, it's entirely possible these lit mags solicit a large percentage of their work. Hard to know since few journals make their solicitation numbers public.
Oh, interesting. I have never assumed that it would be an issue if a journal wanted all my poems in a pack, or fewer. My assumption was they'd pick what they liked, accept those. That said I have sent one when I could have sent five. I pick the journals I submit to by how applicable my poems might be to them. Sometimes there's only one, sometimes more. I wouldn't withdraw an accepted piece unless untoward was happening. Never even occurred to me to do that.
Thank you for writing this Mark. I'll tell you one scenario where I had submitted to a journal that had taken more than a year to accept my work, and in the meantime one of the poems was taken, so I wasn't sure how to communicate with them apparently they had had a hiatus or something anyway so when they accepted my work I said well this poem was taken and I sent them two others and they took them right away. So that was a nice experience of substituting other work and then getting my other poems accepted right away.
Thank you so much for this Mark. It is so helpful to get an inside perspective on the process. And I appreciate your thoughts on the quality of the layout of online publications. There’s no print cost to consider so it’s easy, I suppose, to create a 200 page publication as you say. But who will wade through it? I am fairly new to the world of submitting my work and am trying to decipher the quality of publications that I am submitting to. This helps, thank you!
This article has been on my mind because it never occurred to me that a place would want all of the poems I send (I send a variety so something might be a match) nor that I would have a choice to say no.
A few months ago a very large batch was fully accepted and I felt conflicted. On the one hand I didn't want to let that many poems to go to one place. I sent the maximum number allowed because I was hoping for the opportunity for a good match. My thought process is maybe the last piece I would have chosen to submit would have been the one the liked (and this has happened multiple times. The last one I picked to include was the one picked by the editor), but that doesn't mean I want to drop five or seven or ten (a rare amount) into one poetry magazine.
On the other, these were all poems that needed a niche home and after thinking about it I felt that the journal was right to see that they went well together even though they were distinctly different so I accepted the offer. I never shared my hesitation with them because I didn't realize until this article that this could even happen, much less that if it did *I could say no*.
The publication ultimately didn't go forward for timing mismatches, but it left me slightly anxious now when I send pieces. Thanks to this article when I originally read it, it gave me a sense of ownership that I didn't even realize I needed to have---I have a right to decline to let a whole batch be taken. I send the batch so they have choices, not so every piece can de facto be published. Just like most of them ask for a batch so they have choices, not as a promise to accept all the pieces if they like one.
Now I stop and think...if too many of these pieces get accepted, am I ok with that. Do I feel secure enough to say, could you select the top one to three and release the others? Will this upset an editor? It may not be true at all, but my gut (or perhaps uneducated fear) is convinced that if I said "Thank you so much for the acceptance. I'm only hoping for X number of poems to be published from this submission, which ones would you like' if would cause ill will or some sort of damaged relationship with the editor. I resent that. I resent that I am afraid to have ownership over my work in a way that is solely mine because someone else with power in the lit world (editors talk) might bristle and cause me issues.
I would love it if it became standard, communicated, practice, that poets get to say how many or which of the batch that editors want can be had, without being punished or losing the publishing opportunity because they didn't relinquish everything the editor wanted. Because most editors probably aren't a problem and it would create a trust when off chance happening arises.
Wow, what a response! I’m so pleased that not only did this piece resonate with you but that it also made you feel empowered.
You're right. Ideally, lit community editors/publishers should make changes regarding transparency and help ensure writers don't feel unnecessarily pressured to act one way or another with their work.
I have a lot more to say on the matter and this warrants a more substantive follow-up discussion.
I enjoyed reading this. It gave me a lot to think about! And maybe I am just the odd one out, but I love paging through online mags and looking at EVERYTHING in them. I may not read everything, but I enjoy seeing the art, check out the ads and delight in coming across works from writers I have never heard of.
I'm certainly glad there are folks out there who are willing to page through these longer lit mags in a range of formats. My sense is it's daunting or off-putting for many, but it's heartening to hear there are readers willing to go all in.
Wow, this article is such good timing! Recently, I submitted a poem to a lit magazine because I absolutely loved their theme. Usually I write fiction, but I was so captivated by the theme that a poem came crashing over me, like I just felt all swimmy as I started to write out the lines. There was a pretty tight deadline, so after workshopping the poem with a few friends, I submitted it off. Then, about an hour after I submitted, I was filled with a great sadness, wondering if I had done myself a disservice because I had only sent the one instead of a batch of poems. It fills me with such relief to see that my singleton still has a chance.
Once I sent one poem to a journal that said "up to five poems" in their submission guidelines. With their rejection they sent a snarky response implying that by sending them only one poem I was wasting their time and effort. I was offended, and never sent to them again; but now I also never send anyone only one poem.
Well, that was a mean-spirited response by that lit mag. They should never had said "up to five poems" in the first place, clearly.
I wouldn't take the wrong lesson. Submitting one poem or just couple that feel targeted, I think, is likely appreciated by editors. That being said, I've so often heard that it's the last minute poem someone added to the end to "fill" their submission that was the surprise poem that got picked up by a lit mag.
Editorial taste is, of course, highly subjective.
Sometimes it's just a matter of putting the right piece in front of the right editor at the right moment.
I really like that you wrote about this, Mark. I have always wondered why the number was set to three or five when maybe one was the perfect fit and the other two or four, not so much. I think these kinds of articles are important because there is so much unspoken and assumed by writers regarding what editors want, responses are, what could upset them, what they are looking for. And I'm sure the same issues but different arise on the other end of the spectrum. It's nice to have an open conversation about it.
I like that you called attention to the problem that too much is "unspoken" or "assumed". Not everyone knows the secret winks and nods. Especially not those who have recently become more engaged in the literary community and the practice of submitting work.
We live in a world where it's easier to get into the lit mags (because there are over 7000 of them and some have high acceptance rates) so getting a few initial publications under your belt can be easier and empowering... but it's still not the same as learning the ropes. Those easy publications don't really prepare writers for how to submit to top tier or heritage journals that have high expectations and an understanding of industry "best practices" (just to throw in some corporate speak).
Thank you, Mark. This is insightful, helpful. As you indicate, the publication process is ever changing, like other facets of life. I myself have found the people in the process, writers/editors/ staff to be as varied as humankind itself. And the learning process is on-going.
Much appreciated, Peter. Like you said -- it's all about finding your niche, your people. The editors and publishers that appreciate your voice and your work. And taking the approach of a life-long learner is really the way to go.
Wonderful essay. It was the aesthetics of ONE ART that first caught my attention, then the fine poetry. Working with a wonderful editor has been a continuous pleasure. I have appreciated the feedback and the flexibility in the number of submissions permissible. A gift that I have given to myself, is the decision to only work with editors and publishers who are kind, constructive, and easy to work with. Mutual respect and understanding are what's most important to me when deciding where to send work.
"Kind", "constructive", "easy to work with" are all desirable editor/publisher traits that I wish were the industry standard.
The old guard mentality of gatekeepers who are mysterious and on a pedestal is not in line with the contemporary times. Being approachable and, at least somewhat, public-facing as an editor/publisher feels extremely important to me as an editor/publisher and, moreover, a member of the literary community.
Editors/Publishers seem to sometimes forget that they are on the side of the writers. They should have their contributor's best interests in mind.
I accept up to 3 poems... I was accepting up to 5, but got swamped with submissions... Reduced to 3 and still most poets submit the max.. I ask for multiples because I really want to give writers the exposure they deserve and the packet allows more of a guarantee that I'll find at least one piece that fits the magazine and be able to publish the poet... But I've been known to often accept all the pieces in a packet... And my contributors have been fine with that....
Getting 3 published seems more reasonable (less overwhelming?) than 5.
A fascinating and thoughtful piece, Mark. I would never have considered withdrawing a piece I had submitted, that had been accepted...and I'm pretty sure I won't begin that practice, sticking with withdrawing a simultaneously subbed poem only for a sooner acceptance.
And yet, it is an extraordinary gift of respect for writers that you describe this possibility. Writers (increasingly, it seems, at least in my experience with one sector of the publishing world ) have so little agency in their own careers, and your discussion opens doors.
For me, when I send a poem or poems, it feels like that's my offering, my part of what I hope will be (but know may not be) a contract. It feels right - but yes, the many-months of consideration are prohibitive. The clearer preferences are from editors, the easier it is as a writer to navigate choices for what, or if, to send.
Carol, I really appreciate what you shared. I especially empathize and agree with your point about writing having limited agency over their work and career trajectory. It's in line with my intentions with this piece which, in many ways, boils down to fairness.
Thank you, Mark. Those "good intentions" are much appreciated.
I agree, it never occurred to me to withdraw a piece that’s been accepted. I’m not sure how I feel about it, but it does feel empowering to know that’s an option.
Glad to hear the wonder "empowering" come into the conversation. It's your work after all.
Carol, that's a wonderful word "offering." Too often, "submission" calls to mind genuflecting. And my literary knee-pads are threadbare.
I don't mind submitting two or three stories when that's in the guidelines because there's always that once chance that one of those stories will be accepted. I try to have a file with 2 and with 3 stories ready to go when I come across lit mags, all I have to do is upload and send.
I DO have a new beef with lit mags to the point where I've now added another lit mag to my list of places to avoid.
I'd love to hear back from any editors who are guilty of this -
For the love of little sweet kittens, if you are not telling submitters that you can't be bothered to let them know if they are rejected....REALLY? RUDE and UNPROFESSIONAL. I don't want to hear you don't have time. Bullshit. Keep a generic 'thank you but no thank you' draft email. It's not rocket science.
Ahem. As you were.....
I'm noting a few comments about making lists of "lit mags to avoid" due to frustrating submission guidelines. This makes a lot of sense. It could be a wake up call for these lit mags.
My list is a mix of reasons;, shitty guidelines, charging to submit but not paying the people they publish, being ghosted after reaching out a few times, and one lit mag for totally trashing a piece - every word,line, paragraph, they hated all of it (when I went to look on their website, I realized the vibe was very hoity toity 'our shit doesn't stink/clutch my pearls', so no loss there) when I had asked for feedback.
Low fees to cover operations is fair. I'm not a huge fan or the practice but it may become semi-necessary in response to a future deluge of AI generated submissions (in order to deter junk subs).
I don’t mind paying a fee, I get the cost of operations, but I draw the line at charging to submit but not paying contributors. There are at least a ton of lit mags that don’t charge a fee, so I generally stick to those.
Add "Mom Egg" to the list of lit mags who charge a fee -- but don't pay writers.
Heh, if memory serves that's a mag that deals with parenting. I'm child free by choice. But good to know!
Thanks for the detailed essay analyzing the reasons for numeration in submission requests, Mark. I really appreciate the supportive and thoughtful stance you take towards the writer.
Thank you, Nancy!
Here's a question on everyone's mind: "Why do lit mags want to read multiple pieces - - - after they have made the submission process unnecessarily complicated?"
EX: Certain lit-mags ask you to submit 3-5 poems all as separate files and each file designated POET NAME + title + line count . . . OR . . . Poem title + line count and it must be anonymous . . . OR . . . Title + designated theme . . . OR . . . send a single submission as a .pdf . . . OR . . . .!!!
Ahem! If I must spend 15 mins renaming all my files, that lit-mag EIC will probably only get ONE.
Anyone else here in support of "submissions simplified"??
Agreed. It's absurd. I wouldn't even bother (in most circumstances). Don't follow rules you don't agree with. The most likely outcome is rejection anyhow.
I have a list of places to avoid for various reasons, and the above is one of them. Submitting to lit mags is like job hunting and I shouldn't have to spend an hour refortmatting one story. I don't mind the random 'make sure pages numbered' or easy shit like that but basically all but re writing one piece and all that formatting? Oh hell no.
That's right. And without our submissions, no lit mag would exist.
Please keep on saying "hello, no" to all those absurd demands. :-D
Exactly. If lit mags that insist on unreasonable submission guidelines stopped receiving submissions, then they would be forced to change their ways.
On the other hand, there's a possibility that these lit mags use this practice to deter slush submissions... That is, it's entirely possible these lit mags solicit a large percentage of their work. Hard to know since few journals make their solicitation numbers public.
The "dark side of poetry submissions" - I see inspiration for a vampire story here! Thank you, Mark. Eternally. :-D
Yeah, I've asked for a specific name format, but it's not a deal breaker and I'll simply rename the file myself after acceptance.
Deryck
Thank you, Deryck.
Oh, interesting. I have never assumed that it would be an issue if a journal wanted all my poems in a pack, or fewer. My assumption was they'd pick what they liked, accept those. That said I have sent one when I could have sent five. I pick the journals I submit to by how applicable my poems might be to them. Sometimes there's only one, sometimes more. I wouldn't withdraw an accepted piece unless untoward was happening. Never even occurred to me to do that.
Thank you for writing this Mark. I'll tell you one scenario where I had submitted to a journal that had taken more than a year to accept my work, and in the meantime one of the poems was taken, so I wasn't sure how to communicate with them apparently they had had a hiatus or something anyway so when they accepted my work I said well this poem was taken and I sent them two others and they took them right away. So that was a nice experience of substituting other work and then getting my other poems accepted right away.
Glad to hear that scenario actually had a positive outcome!
Thank you so much for this Mark. It is so helpful to get an inside perspective on the process. And I appreciate your thoughts on the quality of the layout of online publications. There’s no print cost to consider so it’s easy, I suppose, to create a 200 page publication as you say. But who will wade through it? I am fairly new to the world of submitting my work and am trying to decipher the quality of publications that I am submitting to. This helps, thank you!
This article has been on my mind because it never occurred to me that a place would want all of the poems I send (I send a variety so something might be a match) nor that I would have a choice to say no.
A few months ago a very large batch was fully accepted and I felt conflicted. On the one hand I didn't want to let that many poems to go to one place. I sent the maximum number allowed because I was hoping for the opportunity for a good match. My thought process is maybe the last piece I would have chosen to submit would have been the one the liked (and this has happened multiple times. The last one I picked to include was the one picked by the editor), but that doesn't mean I want to drop five or seven or ten (a rare amount) into one poetry magazine.
On the other, these were all poems that needed a niche home and after thinking about it I felt that the journal was right to see that they went well together even though they were distinctly different so I accepted the offer. I never shared my hesitation with them because I didn't realize until this article that this could even happen, much less that if it did *I could say no*.
The publication ultimately didn't go forward for timing mismatches, but it left me slightly anxious now when I send pieces. Thanks to this article when I originally read it, it gave me a sense of ownership that I didn't even realize I needed to have---I have a right to decline to let a whole batch be taken. I send the batch so they have choices, not so every piece can de facto be published. Just like most of them ask for a batch so they have choices, not as a promise to accept all the pieces if they like one.
Now I stop and think...if too many of these pieces get accepted, am I ok with that. Do I feel secure enough to say, could you select the top one to three and release the others? Will this upset an editor? It may not be true at all, but my gut (or perhaps uneducated fear) is convinced that if I said "Thank you so much for the acceptance. I'm only hoping for X number of poems to be published from this submission, which ones would you like' if would cause ill will or some sort of damaged relationship with the editor. I resent that. I resent that I am afraid to have ownership over my work in a way that is solely mine because someone else with power in the lit world (editors talk) might bristle and cause me issues.
I would love it if it became standard, communicated, practice, that poets get to say how many or which of the batch that editors want can be had, without being punished or losing the publishing opportunity because they didn't relinquish everything the editor wanted. Because most editors probably aren't a problem and it would create a trust when off chance happening arises.
Wow, what a response! I’m so pleased that not only did this piece resonate with you but that it also made you feel empowered.
You're right. Ideally, lit community editors/publishers should make changes regarding transparency and help ensure writers don't feel unnecessarily pressured to act one way or another with their work.
I have a lot more to say on the matter and this warrants a more substantive follow-up discussion.
I enjoyed reading this. It gave me a lot to think about! And maybe I am just the odd one out, but I love paging through online mags and looking at EVERYTHING in them. I may not read everything, but I enjoy seeing the art, check out the ads and delight in coming across works from writers I have never heard of.
I'm certainly glad there are folks out there who are willing to page through these longer lit mags in a range of formats. My sense is it's daunting or off-putting for many, but it's heartening to hear there are readers willing to go all in.
I just love words so much. :)
Wow, this article is such good timing! Recently, I submitted a poem to a lit magazine because I absolutely loved their theme. Usually I write fiction, but I was so captivated by the theme that a poem came crashing over me, like I just felt all swimmy as I started to write out the lines. There was a pretty tight deadline, so after workshopping the poem with a few friends, I submitted it off. Then, about an hour after I submitted, I was filled with a great sadness, wondering if I had done myself a disservice because I had only sent the one instead of a batch of poems. It fills me with such relief to see that my singleton still has a chance.
Glad to hear the timing worked out well!
Once I sent one poem to a journal that said "up to five poems" in their submission guidelines. With their rejection they sent a snarky response implying that by sending them only one poem I was wasting their time and effort. I was offended, and never sent to them again; but now I also never send anyone only one poem.
Well, that was a mean-spirited response by that lit mag. They should never had said "up to five poems" in the first place, clearly.
I wouldn't take the wrong lesson. Submitting one poem or just couple that feel targeted, I think, is likely appreciated by editors. That being said, I've so often heard that it's the last minute poem someone added to the end to "fill" their submission that was the surprise poem that got picked up by a lit mag.
Editorial taste is, of course, highly subjective.
Sometimes it's just a matter of putting the right piece in front of the right editor at the right moment.
Thanks for this well thought out and informative essay.
Thank you, Laurie!!
I really like that you wrote about this, Mark. I have always wondered why the number was set to three or five when maybe one was the perfect fit and the other two or four, not so much. I think these kinds of articles are important because there is so much unspoken and assumed by writers regarding what editors want, responses are, what could upset them, what they are looking for. And I'm sure the same issues but different arise on the other end of the spectrum. It's nice to have an open conversation about it.
Thank you, Sara!
I like that you called attention to the problem that too much is "unspoken" or "assumed". Not everyone knows the secret winks and nods. Especially not those who have recently become more engaged in the literary community and the practice of submitting work.
We live in a world where it's easier to get into the lit mags (because there are over 7000 of them and some have high acceptance rates) so getting a few initial publications under your belt can be easier and empowering... but it's still not the same as learning the ropes. Those easy publications don't really prepare writers for how to submit to top tier or heritage journals that have high expectations and an understanding of industry "best practices" (just to throw in some corporate speak).
Thank you, Mark. This is insightful, helpful. As you indicate, the publication process is ever changing, like other facets of life. I myself have found the people in the process, writers/editors/ staff to be as varied as humankind itself. And the learning process is on-going.
Much appreciated, Peter. Like you said -- it's all about finding your niche, your people. The editors and publishers that appreciate your voice and your work. And taking the approach of a life-long learner is really the way to go.
Wonderful essay. It was the aesthetics of ONE ART that first caught my attention, then the fine poetry. Working with a wonderful editor has been a continuous pleasure. I have appreciated the feedback and the flexibility in the number of submissions permissible. A gift that I have given to myself, is the decision to only work with editors and publishers who are kind, constructive, and easy to work with. Mutual respect and understanding are what's most important to me when deciding where to send work.
Thank you, Donna!
"Kind", "constructive", "easy to work with" are all desirable editor/publisher traits that I wish were the industry standard.
The old guard mentality of gatekeepers who are mysterious and on a pedestal is not in line with the contemporary times. Being approachable and, at least somewhat, public-facing as an editor/publisher feels extremely important to me as an editor/publisher and, moreover, a member of the literary community.
Editors/Publishers seem to sometimes forget that they are on the side of the writers. They should have their contributor's best interests in mind.
You are doing it right. I hope others will follow your lead.