Lit Mag Incubator Program; serial plagiarist; more thoughts on men in publishing; Conduit v Conduit; Confessions of a Journal Editor; nasty rejection letters; when to follow up on a sub; and more!
Each day I write & submit my writing to lit-mags AND daily I make time for "literary citizenship." EX: Pangyrus solicits nominations for "unappreciated writers" & nominees will get a special invite to submit. That's one way I help others. I've also launched a "pilot program" to boost other people's lit-mag work by doing erasure poetry from the source, then sharing it on social media. * * * * Becky, I'd love to see a column on good literary citizenship - - aside from your own superb example! Thanks for everything - - even for news on lit-mag roguery and villainy . :-)
Lemon Jelly Press: "If we read a submission that is wonderful, but it means we cannot take on a piece of work of equal talent from a marginalised writer, or a story that celebrates diversity in a unique and talented way, it may have to be passed on."
I fall into three, arguably four, "marginalised" demographics. Had I been thinking about sending work to Lemon Jelly Press, this statement from the editors would have kept me from wasting their time, and mine.
I'm sure the good-hearted folks at Lemon Jelly Press would be unable to grasp how "biased, prejudiced, and even bigoted" their statement is at face value. A prejudice against a class of writers--those they deem non-marginalized--is still a prejudice. Why do you need to know the demographics of ANY writer, FGS. Just read the work and select based on its quality. Stop asking about the author's demographics. You're better than that, surely.
Patrick, I assumed "bias" was a prop for grant applications - - used to boost the chance for funding. . . . . . I recall the "good old days" when lit mag bios were short - - a brief capsule of professional credits; the only personal details given (and not always) would be an author's city/state. Now some of these bio-notes reveal cringe-worthy intimate details more appropriate for a dating app than for a credible lit-mag. #TMI :-O
What is the incentive for plagiarizing? Is the incentive similar to using AI (which to me is the same thing)? It's not like a lot of people get rich from writing. It can't be prestige, for obvious reasons. So, what? I'd love for someone to interview Elly Katz so I could better understand this odd behavior. I have never heard of Elly Katz. I do not believe Elly Katz has gained fortune through their plagiarism.
I don't see the need for a male-centric journal. Even if there is some over-correction taking place after decades (centuries?) of blocking women from advancing in the arts, and I seriously doubt there is, a male-centric journal screams to me: "Attention all incels!" Maybe that's harsh, but it seems weird. I'd feel a bit awkward if anything of mine landed within its hallowed pages.
Charles, on BlueSky there's much discussion of rogue writers who plagiarize (wait for it) FAN-FICTION! Obviously, fan-fiction cannot be sold; it has NO commercial value since, by definition, it trades on copyrighted work, i.e., Superman, the Star Wars franchise, etc. owned by corporations wealthy enough to have in-house attorneys ready to sue for infringement. I've never understood the point of fan-fiction - - much less plagiarizing another person's fan-fiction. Sheeesh! If anyone can explain this conundrum, I'd be grateful.
Also, on a personal note, thanks for the heads up on Twin Bill. I submitted a story and they accepted it. Very cool, so thanks again. I don't remember where you let me know about it so I'm thanking you here. 🙂
Charles, wonderful - a home run for you in Twin Bill. Congratulations - - and thanks for letting me know you had your story accepted. You're always a good literary citizen, my friend! :-)
I had to let you know because you were the one being the great literary citizen by calling out a few folks and letting them know about it. This was a way to provide evidence that doing that actually results in meaningful connections/results and is not in vain. I remember now - it was on BlueSky. Thanks again.
That was a masterful bit of “evidence,” too, Charles. :-) And it demonstrated that you, too, are a valued literary citizen - - gracious enough to thank writers who have helped you. I appreciated that you did it! . . . . . . . . . True story: 3 years ago I acquired a rare digital copy of Gramarye, the Chichester Centre for Fairy Tales, Fantasy & Speculative Fiction. I sent it to a colleague who writes fairytale poetry. When I discovered (accidentally) that her poems were accepted and published it, I sent her congratulations and reminded her I had sent her the journal. Her lukewarm response: “Yeah, it worked out.” I don’t know. Does that qualify as gratitude, Charles?
Right. It can't be sold - - since it violates copyright - - and it has no commercial momentum, no validation beyond "likes" on your own website . . . even so there are craven crooks out there plagiarizing FAN-FICTION!!! Now that silliness has got to beat all.
This article prompted me to have so many thoughts.
First, I'm going to limit what I have to say about the "boohoo won't people think of the men in publishing" lament because it will be extremely harsh. That said, if someone wants to start a litmag on that topic, even if I think its self-indulgent recentering I kinda support that. I doubt a mag like that is going to impinge too much on the landscap and if it does it will give us thoughts to think about why we so easily and readily recenter men.
Second, first person present tense: its because tastes have changed. There is no right or wrong, but there is always someone who says their own tastes are THE ANSWER. But time passes, people learn to read, are young in their ether, age, grow, change, revert along with culture. Personally I've had conversations and watched online and the reason there is a lot of first person present tense is that people don't like to read a lot of third person past tense, and if they want to, they can go to their local library and pull on of thousand established books. Of the three books I am reading ominsicent third person past, third person limited past, first person present, third person present, and all of them (obelisk gate). the order of enjoyment is: solid, sucks, fun, riveting, fascinating.
Some people like first person present (a lot of them as I've had several conversations with younger people about their perspective and of their writing teachers advice) and some like third person limited, and one person told me that while they prefer third person limited its much harder to pull off so they read more first person present.
As far as the rejection letter to Melanie Cole, I can only think if the submission guidelines said something like "absolutely do not send any poems about elves, that rhyme, or are over three pages" and she sent a five page rhyming poems about elves. Otherwise it does sound pretty strange and vindictive.
But on the corollary, the idea that someone is "playing" the system by trying to match the judge's tastes is rather odd to me. Its not manipulating judges, its going off of common practice to research and try to get in the ballpark. Writers absolutely "sent in their bird work specifically because of my last book." They were definitely trying to get close to the judge's taste. Its sensical, practical and in line with standard practice. In fact, some judges will resent if you go too off book. They will perceive it as wasting their time by not doing diligence. I'm totally down with saying, "hey y'all, consider trying something new, as a judge that's what I wanted to see, not 50 million bird poems". It seems like an intensely personal insecurity to perceive that as authors trying to "play" the system. I'm not sure if that phrasing is too harsh so I might edit this with better phrasing. I'm open to suggestions.
I read lemon jelly's statement as in "all things being equal, we will pick a piece by a marginalized identity, because things are not equal. We genuinely have a hard time accepting this in general, I've noticed. If I've read it correctly, then I support their statement.
My sympathy goes to Melanie Cole-- that rejection letter she got was not only unprofessionally personal, it was mean! I got something similar myself some months ago-- it made me laugh, and I almost felt sorry for the editor's paltry soul--almost, but not quite.
Thank you, LindaAnn, for your thoughtful kindness as always, but though I've been published in 6 of Robin's beautifully done books [including the Suicide anthology, Vol. 2 where she published my memoir of my attempted suicide and resultant NDE in 1971], I'm afraid I'm not in this recent book. [Oh, and I got a new laptop but lost some files so if you could send me your email, I'd love to stay in touch!]
Nolo, I have poems in Robin's SUICIDE anthology & saw your work there (years back) - - AND I saw your work on his "Mental Health Poetry" website. . . . . https://www.poetryformentalhealth.org/nolo-segundo . . . . . . That must have made me assume you were in his anthology. (Awaiting my own digital copy.) . . . . . . . Nolo, look for my email.
Did I hear right? “Publishing or not publishing a writer exclusively based on their identity is fundamentally disrespectful”? Maybe it’s just me, but I thought that was the driving principle in literary publishing today.
Conduit UK simply changes their name a bit. And what they are doing IS necessary. Do you see men publishing in Harlequin, Hachette? They're for Women Only. A corrective is needed. The fact is all lit agents and publishing positions are held by women. Who do you think they are going to publish? We have real writers, namely, William Boyd, Kevin Barry, John Banville (his lit stuff) all of whom have been around for awhile and have a readership. New men authors? Let me see... Can't name a one. Publishing is the new home of prejudice.
Hi Becky, Thanks for the reminder about June's LMRC session with Sewanee Review! Your Save The Dates post (https://litmagnews.substack.com/p/save-the-dates-june-interviews-and-cee?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email) mentions that the current issue is available online, but the stories appear to be behind a subscription paywall after a certain number of paragraphs...I wonder if I'm the only person experiencing this? Thanks for all that you do!!
Ah thanks for this heads up, Kent. I hadn't realized they were paywalled. I've just reached out to the editor to ask about a possible discount. I'll keep everyone posted.
Editors, what happens when a plagiarist is (presumably) contacted about their reprehensible behaviour? Do most editors do some kind of vetting? I’m sure that process adds to the time spent editing a journal but apparently it is increasingly necessary. Would this be an instance of where AI would be helpful in determining whether a submitted piece was original? Some professors use it for this aid. I’m at a loss to understand the motivation behind plagiarism. I can understand how a single phrase, or even a full sentence, read years ago and buried into the brain, might somehow appear as if it were the person’s own thought. A human error. I can also see assuming “hey, great minds think alike” for the independent existence of a phrase, an idea (e.g. some people originally theorized that the Mayan arch couldn’t have developed independently but rather was Greek in origin re hyperdiffusionism, blatantly a ridiculous idea but still alive on Reddit, of course). But an entire poem? I find this so weird. All I read about on Substack and similar media is how hard people are trying to get their own work out there, which I’m guessing is solely to connect with a reader since it can’t be for the nonexistent money. I’m new to learning about the literary world (I am not a writer) so obviously I’m missing something here. Is it for prize money, such as it is? When you discover plagiarism, and see the person has a book coming out, do you contact the publisher? Is there a clearinghouse, for lack of a better word, a public hall of shame, for these awful people? I’m
When editing / doing peer review for academic journals, there was always some incident heard about re parts of papers being, shall we say, derivative, or rejected due to ‘insufficient attribution.’ Still disgusting but at least on some level I could understand the motivation: the pressure to publish is well known. But in a literary journal? I mean no disrespect regarding the importance of literary journals, plagiarism just seems like the exact opposite of what writers are hoping to do. Writers, how do you find out / search if your work has been stolen? Does the possibility of plagiarism prevent you from sharing your efforts?
Hi, Becky. I’m curious if you have any insight on Rattle Magazine. For years I have supported and frequently submitted poetry to them. I listen to Katie Dozier and Brian Greene’s Poetry Space podcast every week. I frequently submit to Poets Respond and the Ekphrastic Challenge. Despite having two chapbooks published by reputable presses and my poems having won awards and been widely published, they reject my work every time. I know they have a lot of followers and poets whose work they champion. I’m not on FB so I don’t participate there. I’m beginning to suspect they don’t do blind judging.I just can’t believe my poems don’t measure up!
This a quote from a piece Tim wrote. I copied it into my writer's journal for later reference because I tend to avoid journals with stats like this: #QUOTE "Rattle Magazine receives around 250,000 poetry submissions annually. They publish approximately 300 poems each year." . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No disparagement to any writer who yearns for validation by Rattle, The New Yorker, Paris Review, Granta, R&R, Missouri Review, etc. I just don't ride the same merry-go-round - - thereby leaving more room for others. :-)
Wise woman. But I wonder how it happens that Rattle publishes the same poets over and over?! I sometimes wonder if it would help me to use a pseudonym.
I see the same thing. Kim Addonizio and Denise Duhamel are two names that appear regularly, for example. Though I have taken delight in many pieces Tim has selected, his choices are no longer in the category of "so good it made my teeth ache." . . . THIS deft ghazal did rise to chin level - - "Ghazal for Longing" by Sarah Mills . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . https://substack.com/home/post/p-165802917
Each day I write & submit my writing to lit-mags AND daily I make time for "literary citizenship." EX: Pangyrus solicits nominations for "unappreciated writers" & nominees will get a special invite to submit. That's one way I help others. I've also launched a "pilot program" to boost other people's lit-mag work by doing erasure poetry from the source, then sharing it on social media. * * * * Becky, I'd love to see a column on good literary citizenship - - aside from your own superb example! Thanks for everything - - even for news on lit-mag roguery and villainy . :-)
Lemon Jelly Press: "If we read a submission that is wonderful, but it means we cannot take on a piece of work of equal talent from a marginalised writer, or a story that celebrates diversity in a unique and talented way, it may have to be passed on."
I fall into three, arguably four, "marginalised" demographics. Had I been thinking about sending work to Lemon Jelly Press, this statement from the editors would have kept me from wasting their time, and mine.
I'm sure the good-hearted folks at Lemon Jelly Press would be unable to grasp how "biased, prejudiced, and even bigoted" their statement is at face value. A prejudice against a class of writers--those they deem non-marginalized--is still a prejudice. Why do you need to know the demographics of ANY writer, FGS. Just read the work and select based on its quality. Stop asking about the author's demographics. You're better than that, surely.
Patrick, I assumed "bias" was a prop for grant applications - - used to boost the chance for funding. . . . . . I recall the "good old days" when lit mag bios were short - - a brief capsule of professional credits; the only personal details given (and not always) would be an author's city/state. Now some of these bio-notes reveal cringe-worthy intimate details more appropriate for a dating app than for a credible lit-mag. #TMI :-O
What is the incentive for plagiarizing? Is the incentive similar to using AI (which to me is the same thing)? It's not like a lot of people get rich from writing. It can't be prestige, for obvious reasons. So, what? I'd love for someone to interview Elly Katz so I could better understand this odd behavior. I have never heard of Elly Katz. I do not believe Elly Katz has gained fortune through their plagiarism.
I don't see the need for a male-centric journal. Even if there is some over-correction taking place after decades (centuries?) of blocking women from advancing in the arts, and I seriously doubt there is, a male-centric journal screams to me: "Attention all incels!" Maybe that's harsh, but it seems weird. I'd feel a bit awkward if anything of mine landed within its hallowed pages.
Charles, on BlueSky there's much discussion of rogue writers who plagiarize (wait for it) FAN-FICTION! Obviously, fan-fiction cannot be sold; it has NO commercial value since, by definition, it trades on copyrighted work, i.e., Superman, the Star Wars franchise, etc. owned by corporations wealthy enough to have in-house attorneys ready to sue for infringement. I've never understood the point of fan-fiction - - much less plagiarizing another person's fan-fiction. Sheeesh! If anyone can explain this conundrum, I'd be grateful.
Also, on a personal note, thanks for the heads up on Twin Bill. I submitted a story and they accepted it. Very cool, so thanks again. I don't remember where you let me know about it so I'm thanking you here. 🙂
Charles, wonderful - a home run for you in Twin Bill. Congratulations - - and thanks for letting me know you had your story accepted. You're always a good literary citizen, my friend! :-)
I had to let you know because you were the one being the great literary citizen by calling out a few folks and letting them know about it. This was a way to provide evidence that doing that actually results in meaningful connections/results and is not in vain. I remember now - it was on BlueSky. Thanks again.
That was a masterful bit of “evidence,” too, Charles. :-) And it demonstrated that you, too, are a valued literary citizen - - gracious enough to thank writers who have helped you. I appreciated that you did it! . . . . . . . . . True story: 3 years ago I acquired a rare digital copy of Gramarye, the Chichester Centre for Fairy Tales, Fantasy & Speculative Fiction. I sent it to a colleague who writes fairytale poetry. When I discovered (accidentally) that her poems were accepted and published it, I sent her congratulations and reminded her I had sent her the journal. Her lukewarm response: “Yeah, it worked out.” I don’t know. Does that qualify as gratitude, Charles?
Lol, not in my mind. And thank you for the kind words. Is Paris Review looking for submissions? 🤪
Wow. That's crazy. I also didn't know it can't be sold, but that makes sense.
Right. It can't be sold - - since it violates copyright - - and it has no commercial momentum, no validation beyond "likes" on your own website . . . even so there are craven crooks out there plagiarizing FAN-FICTION!!! Now that silliness has got to beat all.
This article prompted me to have so many thoughts.
First, I'm going to limit what I have to say about the "boohoo won't people think of the men in publishing" lament because it will be extremely harsh. That said, if someone wants to start a litmag on that topic, even if I think its self-indulgent recentering I kinda support that. I doubt a mag like that is going to impinge too much on the landscap and if it does it will give us thoughts to think about why we so easily and readily recenter men.
Second, first person present tense: its because tastes have changed. There is no right or wrong, but there is always someone who says their own tastes are THE ANSWER. But time passes, people learn to read, are young in their ether, age, grow, change, revert along with culture. Personally I've had conversations and watched online and the reason there is a lot of first person present tense is that people don't like to read a lot of third person past tense, and if they want to, they can go to their local library and pull on of thousand established books. Of the three books I am reading ominsicent third person past, third person limited past, first person present, third person present, and all of them (obelisk gate). the order of enjoyment is: solid, sucks, fun, riveting, fascinating.
Some people like first person present (a lot of them as I've had several conversations with younger people about their perspective and of their writing teachers advice) and some like third person limited, and one person told me that while they prefer third person limited its much harder to pull off so they read more first person present.
As far as the rejection letter to Melanie Cole, I can only think if the submission guidelines said something like "absolutely do not send any poems about elves, that rhyme, or are over three pages" and she sent a five page rhyming poems about elves. Otherwise it does sound pretty strange and vindictive.
But on the corollary, the idea that someone is "playing" the system by trying to match the judge's tastes is rather odd to me. Its not manipulating judges, its going off of common practice to research and try to get in the ballpark. Writers absolutely "sent in their bird work specifically because of my last book." They were definitely trying to get close to the judge's taste. Its sensical, practical and in line with standard practice. In fact, some judges will resent if you go too off book. They will perceive it as wasting their time by not doing diligence. I'm totally down with saying, "hey y'all, consider trying something new, as a judge that's what I wanted to see, not 50 million bird poems". It seems like an intensely personal insecurity to perceive that as authors trying to "play" the system. I'm not sure if that phrasing is too harsh so I might edit this with better phrasing. I'm open to suggestions.
I read lemon jelly's statement as in "all things being equal, we will pick a piece by a marginalized identity, because things are not equal. We genuinely have a hard time accepting this in general, I've noticed. If I've read it correctly, then I support their statement.
My sympathy goes to Melanie Cole-- that rejection letter she got was not only unprofessionally personal, it was mean! I got something similar myself some months ago-- it made me laugh, and I almost felt sorry for the editor's paltry soul--almost, but not quite.
Nolo, there is a way to deal with mean-spirited acts from anonymous pens. My antidote is to add some shine to the lit-mag landscape - - so it's a good time to thank you for your fine work in Robin Barratt's latest anthology "Anxiety and Depression." . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . AMZ link - - https://www.amazon.com/Anxiety-Depression-collection-interviews-depression-ebook/dp/B0FCSBRDSM/ref=sr_1_3
Thank you, LindaAnn, for your thoughtful kindness as always, but though I've been published in 6 of Robin's beautifully done books [including the Suicide anthology, Vol. 2 where she published my memoir of my attempted suicide and resultant NDE in 1971], I'm afraid I'm not in this recent book. [Oh, and I got a new laptop but lost some files so if you could send me your email, I'd love to stay in touch!]
Nolo, I have poems in Robin's SUICIDE anthology & saw your work there (years back) - - AND I saw your work on his "Mental Health Poetry" website. . . . . https://www.poetryformentalhealth.org/nolo-segundo . . . . . . That must have made me assume you were in his anthology. (Awaiting my own digital copy.) . . . . . . . Nolo, look for my email.
Did I hear right? “Publishing or not publishing a writer exclusively based on their identity is fundamentally disrespectful”? Maybe it’s just me, but I thought that was the driving principle in literary publishing today.
Conduit UK simply changes their name a bit. And what they are doing IS necessary. Do you see men publishing in Harlequin, Hachette? They're for Women Only. A corrective is needed. The fact is all lit agents and publishing positions are held by women. Who do you think they are going to publish? We have real writers, namely, William Boyd, Kevin Barry, John Banville (his lit stuff) all of whom have been around for awhile and have a readership. New men authors? Let me see... Can't name a one. Publishing is the new home of prejudice.
🤦♀️I guess I'll be updating the name of my Substack... can't believe I missed that!
Name duplication must be the theme of this week's news!
Hi Becky, Thanks for the reminder about June's LMRC session with Sewanee Review! Your Save The Dates post (https://litmagnews.substack.com/p/save-the-dates-june-interviews-and-cee?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email) mentions that the current issue is available online, but the stories appear to be behind a subscription paywall after a certain number of paragraphs...I wonder if I'm the only person experiencing this? Thanks for all that you do!!
Ah thanks for this heads up, Kent. I hadn't realized they were paywalled. I've just reached out to the editor to ask about a possible discount. I'll keep everyone posted.
“Elly Katz” appears to submit under the name “Elaine Katz” (I found nine subs in my mag’s queue, all since withdrawn)
Could Elly Katz be John Kucera trying out a new name?
There’s little humility in editor essays. “I wish writers would stop writing so much crap and sending it to me!”
Editors, what happens when a plagiarist is (presumably) contacted about their reprehensible behaviour? Do most editors do some kind of vetting? I’m sure that process adds to the time spent editing a journal but apparently it is increasingly necessary. Would this be an instance of where AI would be helpful in determining whether a submitted piece was original? Some professors use it for this aid. I’m at a loss to understand the motivation behind plagiarism. I can understand how a single phrase, or even a full sentence, read years ago and buried into the brain, might somehow appear as if it were the person’s own thought. A human error. I can also see assuming “hey, great minds think alike” for the independent existence of a phrase, an idea (e.g. some people originally theorized that the Mayan arch couldn’t have developed independently but rather was Greek in origin re hyperdiffusionism, blatantly a ridiculous idea but still alive on Reddit, of course). But an entire poem? I find this so weird. All I read about on Substack and similar media is how hard people are trying to get their own work out there, which I’m guessing is solely to connect with a reader since it can’t be for the nonexistent money. I’m new to learning about the literary world (I am not a writer) so obviously I’m missing something here. Is it for prize money, such as it is? When you discover plagiarism, and see the person has a book coming out, do you contact the publisher? Is there a clearinghouse, for lack of a better word, a public hall of shame, for these awful people? I’m
When editing / doing peer review for academic journals, there was always some incident heard about re parts of papers being, shall we say, derivative, or rejected due to ‘insufficient attribution.’ Still disgusting but at least on some level I could understand the motivation: the pressure to publish is well known. But in a literary journal? I mean no disrespect regarding the importance of literary journals, plagiarism just seems like the exact opposite of what writers are hoping to do. Writers, how do you find out / search if your work has been stolen? Does the possibility of plagiarism prevent you from sharing your efforts?
Hi, Becky. I’m curious if you have any insight on Rattle Magazine. For years I have supported and frequently submitted poetry to them. I listen to Katie Dozier and Brian Greene’s Poetry Space podcast every week. I frequently submit to Poets Respond and the Ekphrastic Challenge. Despite having two chapbooks published by reputable presses and my poems having won awards and been widely published, they reject my work every time. I know they have a lot of followers and poets whose work they champion. I’m not on FB so I don’t participate there. I’m beginning to suspect they don’t do blind judging.I just can’t believe my poems don’t measure up!
This a quote from a piece Tim wrote. I copied it into my writer's journal for later reference because I tend to avoid journals with stats like this: #QUOTE "Rattle Magazine receives around 250,000 poetry submissions annually. They publish approximately 300 poems each year." . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . No disparagement to any writer who yearns for validation by Rattle, The New Yorker, Paris Review, Granta, R&R, Missouri Review, etc. I just don't ride the same merry-go-round - - thereby leaving more room for others. :-)
Wise woman. But I wonder how it happens that Rattle publishes the same poets over and over?! I sometimes wonder if it would help me to use a pseudonym.
I see the same thing. Kim Addonizio and Denise Duhamel are two names that appear regularly, for example. Though I have taken delight in many pieces Tim has selected, his choices are no longer in the category of "so good it made my teeth ache." . . . THIS deft ghazal did rise to chin level - - "Ghazal for Longing" by Sarah Mills . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . https://substack.com/home/post/p-165802917