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So what comes next? A requirement that all writers and editors declare in full their position on every major political and social issue, as well as any inherent biases they may have against certain types of writing, writers etc? And would that be any better than the current trend to 'disappear' writers who have failed to leap onto the correct bandwagons? Madness lies both ways.
Personal political passions have been riling up the American workplace well before the latest conflict. Everything from the McCarthy anti-communist crusade, the Vietnam War, all the way to BLM, and, now, Israel vs. Palestine. Think about it: all this violent rhetoric is just mirroring the dehumanizing of the "other". It would really benefit the literary combatants to calm down and take a time out before acting precipitously.
Thanks for that great display of humanity. Actually I know two families who lost children in the massacre, so in fact it is about me, my relatives and friends. In contrast to your mistaken assertion (purposeful?) that all that's being said is "Israel, we charge you with genocide" there are well documented antisemitic actions that have occurred on campuses see today's Atlantic https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2023/11/campus-anti-semitism-hamas-war/675991/ and I could quote or provide links to other articles such as the Jerusalem Post https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-770475 . I do notice that you mention nothing about the massacre and kidnapping of Jewish children, so apparently you have no concerns about those acts, or the Hamas charter which calls for Jewish genocide. And please, you know nothing of me, what training I've had in the conflict, what I've experienced, or done, so don't bother telling me what I should and shouldn't care about and stop your ad hominem attacks. Human rights work both ways. In fact I am very concerned about civilian casualties in Gaza and mourn the fact that Hamas uses civilians as shields as documented in this NATO report https://stratcomcoe.org/.../pfiles/hamas_human_shields.pdf . "A broad swathe..." of Germans demanded the extinction of the Jews, so arguments about popular opinion are particularly irrelevant to issues of human rights.
I am very suspicious of blacklists and particularly blacklists of entire organizations. We need to be very careful with such broad-brush accusations. PEN America has over 7, 500 members who do extremely good work protecting writers, fighting censorship, and introducing world literary voices to Americans. I am a member of PEN America and I am not a Zionist. While there are indeed pro-Zionist elements in PEN, they are hardly in the majority.
As an older person of the Jewish faith, whose grandparents left Russia because family members were killed in pogroms, and as someone who lost five family members in the Holocaust, I can't believe we've come to this. Graduate students ripping down posters of kidnapped kids, students chanting kill the Jews, and lit mag folks insisting it's just about colonialism. It feels very much like Germany in 1936. The saddest thing is so few of these protestors and BDS folks actually know much about the history of the conflict, because, well, it's not really about facts is it? And deep down, it's not really about Israel either, it's just about that millennia old racism called antisemitism.
So long as the parties of God have a veto on the solution in Israel/Palestine there will never be peace. There will never be compromise. The killing is based on two religions, each of which claim a holy warrant on the same territory, and they kill each other over Bronze Age scrolls written before we knew the Earth went around the sun and the pronouncements of an illiterate desert wizard. Which one of these sides do you want to back? There is enough atrocity to go around, and all of it is done in the name of religion.
Thanks for your tone. I don't really want to belabor this discussion, because although we have sympathies for both sides in this horrible conflict. You don't know my background and I don't know yours. Nonetheless, statements like "But our personal feelings for the people we know and their suffering do not make either of us more or less authoritative on the matter of what is actually going on in this hideous conflict. " are not accurate given that I have done two fellowships in Middle Eastern studies, have extensive training in the history of the conflict, have met with both Israeli and Palestinian Peace negotiators, and have friends in both Israel and Gaza. Where we differ is in attributing the horrible conditions the Palestinians face to Israel (you) versus mostly the Palestinian leadership and terrorist groups (me). You cite only sources that serve your argument such as the widely criticized Norman Finkelstein who claims the Holocaust is a crutch used by Jewish groups for political gain, and JVP and others who deny the right of Jews to have their own state despite their residence there for millennia (Jerusalem has been a majority city since 1840, Sfat and Tiberias since the '20s). You also ignore the much better lives that Israeli Arabs have in comparison to Arabs in any neighboring country (did you know the majority of pharmacists in Israel are Arab). I could go on, but I won't, other than to say that much of the opposition to Jews in Israel and the existence of the state, is in fact, antisemitic, regardless of whether it comes from people ripping down posters of kidnapped Israeli children, protestors chanting statements that call for ethnic cleansing of Jews, or members of JVP. Just a few choice tidbits of antisemitic outbursts after the 7 October massacre (these are all verifiable via a quick Google search): 1) protestors outside the Sydney Opera House chanted "gas the Jews", 2) BLM was quick to use a graphic depicting Hamas terrorists on paragliders as a symbol of resistance, 3) George Washington University students projected the words “Glory to Our Martyrs” and “Free Palestine from the River to the Sea” in giant letters on campus buildings, 4) Jewish students at Cooper Union in NYC had to hide in the library from a mob pounding on the door, 5) several academics have publicly come out in favor of the Hamas action calling it "awesome" (Prof. Joseph Massad) and "energizing" (Russell Rickford) and 6) even the FBI has noted a horrific increase in antisemitic acts in the US. You ignore the role of racism/antisemitism in the conflict even though it was wide-spread in Palestine during the British Mandate (Arab pogroms of the '20's and the Arab boycott of Jews (1936-1939), and the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was a friend of Hitlers and spent much of WWII in Berlin. I don't really have time to answer every one of your claims, and yes we live in a country where we have freedom of speech, so even antisemitic speech is protected. But if one claims to be a human rights you can't sit silent while antisemitism flourishes in a movement and yet sit silent when it happens.
Oh, hardly. Can't speak for all with pro-Palestinian sympathies, but I think most thoughtful people are perfectly able to distinguish between the two. Hamas is widely considered to be a terrorist organization. Why would a brutal attack on settlers lead people to side with the attackers? Palestine has been getting oppressed by Israel as long as I can remember, and now Gaza is being at least as much brutally attacked as what Hamas did. "Rallied millions of Leftists to the Palestinian cause": please don't make wild claims. Bye now; I don't want to get pulled further into an unreasonable conversation.
It's always useful to have a list of literary journals someone thinks should be censored or penalized. Usually that means they're doing something right.
[Out-of-context quote] Kevin Walker says, “No group of people can ruin literature."
Reality check: oh, sure they can.
Their names? Indie publishers (and maybe certain bigger houses, too).
And yet we never talk about it.
Are we too ashamed [blush, blush] to discuss delicate topics - - - such as disappointing book sales figures?
Are we too busy genuflecting because some benighted soul published our manuscript, therefore, it was all right if the press subsequently murdered the book by NOT marketing it - - - or working against the writer's marketing efforts?
* * * * Personal example: though I did substantial marketing for a certain title last year, and though I received numerous rave reviews, my publisher had the lamest excuses for NOT even adding those promotional links to his page for my book!
Are post-publication memories too embarrassing to bring up on forums?
Are we ready to air dirty literary laundry re: the predatory publishing agreements we have declined to sign? In 2023, I declined THREE predatory "contracts" from 3 different publishers.
Anyway, have you ever thought about this, too?
Is the goal merely to publish a manuscript - - - - and who cares if only a dozen copies sold?
Are there reasons that rogue author agreements or nixed post-pub promises will never come up?
Or is everyone here (perhaps) already in the "bestseller" category?
I'm eager to hear what others think about such secretive and unmentionable subjects.
I have to admit I’m a bit surprised by this post, Becky. By quoting three consecutive statements supporting Hamas, you yourself seem to be taking a side.
Omg, I made the newsletter! Feeling famous. (Also, just wanted to let you know that you got my name wrong in your photo caption –– it's "Cavar", not "Carver".)
Thank you, Becky, for compiling this, and for effectively being my biweekly literary newspaper. The last few weeks in the ~literary community~ have been impossibly challenging, but also deeply clarifying.
Just want to be sure I'm understanding the registration issue correctly: Is the problem that the links *to* register didn't work (such that one would know if they tried to register for an event and were not successful in doing so), or that the Zoom links provided following registration were bad (such that one will not know that registration was unsuccessful until they attempt to join the event day-of)? I registered for a few Nov. events within a day or so of that email going out and had no apparent issues; I want to make sure that I don't need to re-register.
So what comes next? A requirement that all writers and editors declare in full their position on every major political and social issue, as well as any inherent biases they may have against certain types of writing, writers etc? And would that be any better than the current trend to 'disappear' writers who have failed to leap onto the correct bandwagons? Madness lies both ways.
Personal political passions have been riling up the American workplace well before the latest conflict. Everything from the McCarthy anti-communist crusade, the Vietnam War, all the way to BLM, and, now, Israel vs. Palestine. Think about it: all this violent rhetoric is just mirroring the dehumanizing of the "other". It would really benefit the literary combatants to calm down and take a time out before acting precipitously.
Thanks for that great display of humanity. Actually I know two families who lost children in the massacre, so in fact it is about me, my relatives and friends. In contrast to your mistaken assertion (purposeful?) that all that's being said is "Israel, we charge you with genocide" there are well documented antisemitic actions that have occurred on campuses see today's Atlantic https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2023/11/campus-anti-semitism-hamas-war/675991/ and I could quote or provide links to other articles such as the Jerusalem Post https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-770475 . I do notice that you mention nothing about the massacre and kidnapping of Jewish children, so apparently you have no concerns about those acts, or the Hamas charter which calls for Jewish genocide. And please, you know nothing of me, what training I've had in the conflict, what I've experienced, or done, so don't bother telling me what I should and shouldn't care about and stop your ad hominem attacks. Human rights work both ways. In fact I am very concerned about civilian casualties in Gaza and mourn the fact that Hamas uses civilians as shields as documented in this NATO report https://stratcomcoe.org/.../pfiles/hamas_human_shields.pdf . "A broad swathe..." of Germans demanded the extinction of the Jews, so arguments about popular opinion are particularly irrelevant to issues of human rights.
I am very suspicious of blacklists and particularly blacklists of entire organizations. We need to be very careful with such broad-brush accusations. PEN America has over 7, 500 members who do extremely good work protecting writers, fighting censorship, and introducing world literary voices to Americans. I am a member of PEN America and I am not a Zionist. While there are indeed pro-Zionist elements in PEN, they are hardly in the majority.
As an older person of the Jewish faith, whose grandparents left Russia because family members were killed in pogroms, and as someone who lost five family members in the Holocaust, I can't believe we've come to this. Graduate students ripping down posters of kidnapped kids, students chanting kill the Jews, and lit mag folks insisting it's just about colonialism. It feels very much like Germany in 1936. The saddest thing is so few of these protestors and BDS folks actually know much about the history of the conflict, because, well, it's not really about facts is it? And deep down, it's not really about Israel either, it's just about that millennia old racism called antisemitism.
So long as the parties of God have a veto on the solution in Israel/Palestine there will never be peace. There will never be compromise. The killing is based on two religions, each of which claim a holy warrant on the same territory, and they kill each other over Bronze Age scrolls written before we knew the Earth went around the sun and the pronouncements of an illiterate desert wizard. Which one of these sides do you want to back? There is enough atrocity to go around, and all of it is done in the name of religion.
Thanks for your tone. I don't really want to belabor this discussion, because although we have sympathies for both sides in this horrible conflict. You don't know my background and I don't know yours. Nonetheless, statements like "But our personal feelings for the people we know and their suffering do not make either of us more or less authoritative on the matter of what is actually going on in this hideous conflict. " are not accurate given that I have done two fellowships in Middle Eastern studies, have extensive training in the history of the conflict, have met with both Israeli and Palestinian Peace negotiators, and have friends in both Israel and Gaza. Where we differ is in attributing the horrible conditions the Palestinians face to Israel (you) versus mostly the Palestinian leadership and terrorist groups (me). You cite only sources that serve your argument such as the widely criticized Norman Finkelstein who claims the Holocaust is a crutch used by Jewish groups for political gain, and JVP and others who deny the right of Jews to have their own state despite their residence there for millennia (Jerusalem has been a majority city since 1840, Sfat and Tiberias since the '20s). You also ignore the much better lives that Israeli Arabs have in comparison to Arabs in any neighboring country (did you know the majority of pharmacists in Israel are Arab). I could go on, but I won't, other than to say that much of the opposition to Jews in Israel and the existence of the state, is in fact, antisemitic, regardless of whether it comes from people ripping down posters of kidnapped Israeli children, protestors chanting statements that call for ethnic cleansing of Jews, or members of JVP. Just a few choice tidbits of antisemitic outbursts after the 7 October massacre (these are all verifiable via a quick Google search): 1) protestors outside the Sydney Opera House chanted "gas the Jews", 2) BLM was quick to use a graphic depicting Hamas terrorists on paragliders as a symbol of resistance, 3) George Washington University students projected the words “Glory to Our Martyrs” and “Free Palestine from the River to the Sea” in giant letters on campus buildings, 4) Jewish students at Cooper Union in NYC had to hide in the library from a mob pounding on the door, 5) several academics have publicly come out in favor of the Hamas action calling it "awesome" (Prof. Joseph Massad) and "energizing" (Russell Rickford) and 6) even the FBI has noted a horrific increase in antisemitic acts in the US. You ignore the role of racism/antisemitism in the conflict even though it was wide-spread in Palestine during the British Mandate (Arab pogroms of the '20's and the Arab boycott of Jews (1936-1939), and the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was a friend of Hitlers and spent much of WWII in Berlin. I don't really have time to answer every one of your claims, and yes we live in a country where we have freedom of speech, so even antisemitic speech is protected. But if one claims to be a human rights you can't sit silent while antisemitism flourishes in a movement and yet sit silent when it happens.
Oh, hardly. Can't speak for all with pro-Palestinian sympathies, but I think most thoughtful people are perfectly able to distinguish between the two. Hamas is widely considered to be a terrorist organization. Why would a brutal attack on settlers lead people to side with the attackers? Palestine has been getting oppressed by Israel as long as I can remember, and now Gaza is being at least as much brutally attacked as what Hamas did. "Rallied millions of Leftists to the Palestinian cause": please don't make wild claims. Bye now; I don't want to get pulled further into an unreasonable conversation.
It's always useful to have a list of literary journals someone thinks should be censored or penalized. Usually that means they're doing something right.
[Out-of-context quote] Kevin Walker says, “No group of people can ruin literature."
Reality check: oh, sure they can.
Their names? Indie publishers (and maybe certain bigger houses, too).
And yet we never talk about it.
Are we too ashamed [blush, blush] to discuss delicate topics - - - such as disappointing book sales figures?
Are we too busy genuflecting because some benighted soul published our manuscript, therefore, it was all right if the press subsequently murdered the book by NOT marketing it - - - or working against the writer's marketing efforts?
* * * * Personal example: though I did substantial marketing for a certain title last year, and though I received numerous rave reviews, my publisher had the lamest excuses for NOT even adding those promotional links to his page for my book!
Are post-publication memories too embarrassing to bring up on forums?
Are we ready to air dirty literary laundry re: the predatory publishing agreements we have declined to sign? In 2023, I declined THREE predatory "contracts" from 3 different publishers.
Anyway, have you ever thought about this, too?
Is the goal merely to publish a manuscript - - - - and who cares if only a dozen copies sold?
Are there reasons that rogue author agreements or nixed post-pub promises will never come up?
Or is everyone here (perhaps) already in the "bestseller" category?
I'm eager to hear what others think about such secretive and unmentionable subjects.
I have to admit I’m a bit surprised by this post, Becky. By quoting three consecutive statements supporting Hamas, you yourself seem to be taking a side.
Omg, I made the newsletter! Feeling famous. (Also, just wanted to let you know that you got my name wrong in your photo caption –– it's "Cavar", not "Carver".)
Thank you, Becky, for compiling this, and for effectively being my biweekly literary newspaper. The last few weeks in the ~literary community~ have been impossibly challenging, but also deeply clarifying.
okay, fair enough
Just want to be sure I'm understanding the registration issue correctly: Is the problem that the links *to* register didn't work (such that one would know if they tried to register for an event and were not successful in doing so), or that the Zoom links provided following registration were bad (such that one will not know that registration was unsuccessful until they attempt to join the event day-of)? I registered for a few Nov. events within a day or so of that email going out and had no apparent issues; I want to make sure that I don't need to re-register.