19 Comments

Great article! For me, all of the "business" writing involved in writing is painful: proposals, cover letters, etc. I always feel like I am being too stuffy and robotic when I am attempting formality, or too familiar and enthusiastic when I am trying to be casual. And when I mix the two, I just come off as weird! ARGH! This is why I write poetry and not business-y things!

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Joy, I'm working on a BP now, too. Why is it so darn hard? I agree the memoir was easier to write. Now that the book's done, edited, and revised, why can't agents and editors just read it? Good luck with yours!

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I’d love analytics on published pieces! A fellow essayist for Insider asked me if I knew stats, and I said no, and we agreed it would be nice to know this info. But I can see from the editor’s perspective what a slippery slope that could turn into, having to feed back analytics to so many writers, and some might even annoyingly ask for ongoing updates. What would be cool (maybe?) is if the the stats on web pages were automatically transparent/visible!

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Thanks for the tip - I just asked for a "mini-review" of my essay from the editor I'm currently working with. Some editors already do this upon acceptance of a piece, or when introducing a writer during a reading. Kudos to them!

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Thank you, Joy, for this essay. Speaking as a former lit mag editor, for both a college-sponsored and an indie, what you describe would have totally overwhelmed me and my staff. What you say at the end, about writers needing things to add to their list of reasons to keep writing--lit mag editors need the same things to keep editing! In my experience, editors burn out much more quickly than writers, so this is important discussion to have. How can we help keep one another going and growing? I’m curious if anyone reading this has further ideas about how information could be shared?

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Yeah, it's tough for everyone! So much unpaid labor on both sides. I know my suggestions might be impractical, but I hope they get people thinking.

Some possible ideas:

-Editors send out praise limited to "big" pieces like short stories and essays, not poetry/flash. That kind of info may already be in the conversation thread behind the scenes? It's those 'big' pieces that authors are most likely to put in a proposal/application/portfolio, etc, and it's great to have the editor's praise along with it.

-If starting a new journal or moving your journal online, select an online platform where it's easy to see stats. WordPress is pretty good about this, for ex. Substack, too. Assign someone on the team to keep an eye on stats and look for trends. It can be infrequent, too. And again, this isn't for every piece published, just the notable ones, data-wise.

-Tag the author in social media posts so they can see any comments/engagement (and share themselves). Which, yes, means being active on social media. It's good to bake that step into the editing process.

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Thinking long term big picture, what both editors and authors want is for publications we publish/are published in to be recognizable. If an acquisitions editor recognizes the places you’ve published, that’s better than stats. I wish more authors would have been willing to help spread the word about the mags I edited. It would have helped everyone involved, but it was a rare attitude.

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Absolute best way is to take charge of your own mailing list, curate it, and offer value - - don't just use it to announce.

And when you do announce, try to do it in a subtle, clever way.

* * * * * EX: some poems in my forthcoming book "Cancer Courts My Mother" use the image of an amaryllis in a poignant, surprising way. Since I keep a photo record of my amaryllis bulbs blooming - - vivid stunning flower photos, imo - - I added 8 lines from an amaryllis poem to the photo with the publisher's credit at the bottom.

Anyone who emailed me after Thanksgiving received a reply with my flower image + poem.

If you are automatically on a zine's mailing list, then the zine should be automatically on YOUR LIST. Share information. Get in the habit.

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I love that.

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Thank you, John.

I also keep my name on "the good list" by giving back to the zine editors who publish my work.

* * * * * EX: One editor mentioned she was sending the issue to Ellen Datlow, in hopes of getting some media attention - - and I chimed in with three names who might review the issue who are in her niche. My editor didn't know those names and appreciated the tip.

She also mentioned, "Why does no one else do this sort of helpful thing except you?"

Interesting. Why not?

So maybe someone will read this post. :-)

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Joy, you did absolutely the right thing by turning sections into stand-alone essays that were published.

Had you done one more thing, you would have had metrics, comments + pre-orders.

* * * * * * That is: sent it out to your list - - but via a service that provides metrics such as "open rate" - - as a free teaser to your forthcoming book [yes, even though no publisher was attached yet]. In exchange for a comment, those people would be promised a discount code or another incentive.

Much good luck on your memoir!

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Thank you! I plan to keep writing/getting more essays published, so this is good to know. Is there a name for this service? Or do you mean send out my essays via my own substack?

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OK, since I don't know how many readers you already have on Substack & since I'm not familiar with the metrics Substack can provide [open rate / shared, etc.], I can't speak to Substack.

What I do, Joy, is this: I maintain several of my own curated NICHE lists, i.e., horror fans, poetry fans, folks who've attended my events, people who bought tix to my stage plays, etc.

Then "the offer" or "the teaser" is sent out via a paid service that will give metrics - - - - such as what was the open rate, or who made a purchase, or who purchased the Kindle version vs the paperback, etc. etc.

There are auto-responders so you can re-target those who opened but did not click through.

* * * Since this is MY list, I will get a 60% or better open rate.

But if Substack already does all this and gives you the data, then stick with Substack and go for it.

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I was published in Soft Star magazine on substack. The number of readers for my poem was displayed at the bottom of the page for all to see.

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That's good to know! Did you like that the view count was posted, or would have preferred no metrics on the page?

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Dec 21, 2023Liked by Joy V.

One of the lit mags I published in had similar metrics -- you could link directly from the site to FB, Twitter, etc., and it kept a count on how many people had done so. That's a simple and not at all time consuming way for lit magazines to provide such information.

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Is Joy Victory a real name?

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yeah, why?

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