Is the withdrawal of a single poem from a submission the kiss of death for that submission? If one poem is withdrawn, do the others in the submission stand a chance of acceptance anywhere else the whole package has been submitted to? My experience is "no." (And I am very conscientious about notifying when a poem has been "accepted elsewhere.")
This is an interesting one.
As a fiction writer, I never realized how complicated it is for all of you poets sending out your work. When I started doing the monthly Lit Mag Chats and hearing your experiences, it was quite the eye-opener!
Not to gloat or anything, but when we fiction writers submit our stories, it’s all pretty straightforward (once you get through the submission guidelines, decide if your work is a good fit, pony up payment or decide against doing so, etc etc). With a fiction submission, there is just a single document. If it gets accepted elsewhere, you simply withdraw the piece from everywhere else the story is currently out.
But lo! Not so with the poets. When I first heard of all the shuffling and record-keeping that goes on with poetry submissions, I felt like my brain was being pulled through my ears and tied into a knot far, far above my head.
Nonetheless, I will try to offer an answer to B.’s question.
Personally, I do not think withdrawing a single poem is “the kiss of death” for the remaining poems under consideration. In fact, I am under the impression that it could help the poet. Just think. You write a courteous email to an editor and say, Hi. Just wanted to let you know my poem “Bright Leaves” has been accepted by Amazing Lit Mag. I must withdraw it. The other three are still available…Well, mightn’t that pique an editor’s interest in your remaining work? Perhaps it might even add pressure for them to hop on it, since your poems are evidently getting picked up like hot cakes.
Or is that not true at all?
In fact I have more questions than answers about this process. Here’s another question, and this one is relevant to writers of all genres. When you withdraw work, do you name the magazine where it has been accepted? Or do you just say, “Work has been accepted elsewhere.” In the specific case of withdrawing poems, might naming the magazine help with the other poems still under consideration?
Where the withdrawing of a single poem gets particularly complicated is if you envision all of your poems to be connected in an important way. If a magazine invites submitters to turn in 3-5 poems, and yours are all intertwined, such that removing one changes the whole, then what? Should you withdraw the whole batch if one gets accepted elsewhere? Or just wait to hear what the editors think?
If the poet has another related poem handy, should they offer to replace “Bright Leaves” with a new poem to round out the batch? Or is that super annoying to editors?
When poets submit, should they be aware of how many poems a magazine intends to publish? Some editors will accept a whole group of poems from writers. But many, perhaps most, editors, seek to choose just one or two poems from three-to-five submitted. In that case, removing your “Bright Leaves” poem shouldn’t matter because each of the others will need to stand on their own anyway.
All of which brings me to a final question. Which is how, how, do you poets keep track of everything?
You submit five poems to Amazing Lit Mag. Two of those five get accepted at Stupendous Lit Mag. You compile a new batch of five poems, submit those five to Outstanding Lit Mag. Two of that batch get selected by Amazing Lit Mag. And so on and so forth and…ouch, my head hurts.
Tell me, brave poets.
How do you cope?
Is B. correct that withdrawing one poem from a batch is the “kiss of death” for the remaining available poems? Or could it work in the poet’s favor? Or neither?
Do you typically offer to replace an accepted poem with a new one, or is that frowned upon?
When you submit, do you pay attention to how many poems the magazine will accept from each poet? Is that an important consideration when you need to withdraw a poem?
When you withdraw work, do you name the magazine where the piece has been accepted?
Editors, please chime in. What happens at your magazine when a poet removes a single poem from a batch of submitted poems?
Dear poets, how on Earth do you keep track of all of this?
First let me say that I only submit a work--a story, an essay, or a bundle of poems--to a few lit mags at a time. If the work has been accepted elsewhere, I follow the guidelines of the lit mag, whether through email, Submittable, or their proprietary submission manager. That could be a message or a note and Submittable has a "withdraw" button. I do not name the lit mag that accepted the work.
I don't think withdrawing a single poem from the pack is a kiss of death. But the process is a pain in the patootie.
I have to say I was more than pleasantly surprised when I received notes back from two lit mags from which I'd withdrawn work, congratulating me.
A comment from Tara A. Elliot, who had trouble posting her comment here:
I used to keep spreadsheets religiously. I got very mired in the details. As a very busy mom, a teacher, and the director of our local writing organization (ESWA), I noticed I was spending my time tracking instead of writing or publishing. I realized that I wasn't sending out not because I was scared of rejection but because I was scared of spending all that time tracking on my spreadsheet. My spreadsheets were color coded and looked gorgeous but I wasn't getting published.
During the pandemic, I started sending out and using Submittable to track. It's somewhat of a convoluted system but it works for me:
I title the submission by the poem titles -- this makes it easy to find pieces when they've been accepted (I use the search feature in Submittable) and I need to withdraw a particular poem. When I submit, I put a note in the notes field as to whom to contact while I still have the guidelines open in front of me. If the journal is not on Submittable, I use the "External Submissions" to track, and make a note in the "Notes" tab on the submission as to whether it's the journal's online submission manager, or on email. I mark all the sent out submissions "Received" in the External Submissions. I use "Sent" to keep a running list of upcoming submissions that I want to hit and date them accordingly so I don't forget to send something out by the deadline.
When I withdraw a piece, I write to the editor stating, "Dear Editor, I am withdrawing the poem "Title" from my submission dated "Date" under the name "X" because it has been picked up by X Journal. The rest of the submission remains available (sometimes: except for XX which I already notified you about)." I was worried I'd seem less gracious somehow by naming the journal but after reading Kelli Agodon's excellent essay, "Submit Like a Man" (which I now reread everytime I sit down to submit), I realized I might just be shortchanging myself by not naming the journal, especially if it's a solid journal with a great reputation. I want to say editors are above noticing this, but why not give yourself an extra edge? I think as a woman I worried too much about how I was perceived. I fight against this still.
In much the same way that no writer writes the same way, I think submissions are much the same. My system works for me, saves me valuable time, and I can easily find poems that need to be withdrawn quickly and either post a message to the editor, or climb into my notes to find the email address to alert them. The only downside is when a journal uses the numbering system or they themselves title your submission (this is rare, but it happens). In that case, I put a note in the notes section so I can easily see which poems I sent out and check those submissions when withdrawing.
A side note, I don't think it's a "Kiss of Death" but rather works to the poet's favor. If nothing else, it helps build confidence. I used to worry, but now I celebrate in sending out withdrawal notices.
If sending a suite of poems for submission, I think the poet should note that in the cover letter in sending the batch out and target those magazines that might publish a suite.
It does seem "frowned upon" to offer another poem to replace the one that was taken. I learned this early on when I suggested it and editors although nice, were very much, "No need, thanks". If all the poems are taken, I just make a note and send another batch if rejected as quickly as the window allows. The downside is paying for submissions that all get accepted elsewhere, but I expect that happens to all writers, fiction, CNF, NF, and/or poets.
Every magazine that responds to the withdrawing of a poem has done so with grace and celebration so far. I've never had a magazine damn me. Most send a note like this one from Four Way:
Thank you for the update, Tara. We'll keep the rest of your packet under consideration.
The Editors
Hope this helps someone, and I hope that those reading find their own rhythm in submitting. It truly is a personal decision on how to do this effectively for each writer. There is no concrete way to do it that fits everyone's style -- do what best works for you, and tweak accordingly.
Is B. correct that withdrawing one poem from a batch is the “kiss of death” for the remaining available poems? Or could it work in the poet’s favor? Or neither?
Speaking as Baltimore Review editor: Neither. I always check the Messages tab for multi-piece submissions to make sure I’m not reading anything that was already accepted elsewhere. Then I read all work available for consideration. Really, the work itself is all that matters.
Do you typically offer to replace an accepted poem with a new one, or is that frowned upon?
As a writer, I don’t do this. I prefer to keep things simple for editors, and there are plenty of other journals.
As an editor: We receive multiple withdrawals (single piece and entire submission) every day, and this is fine. Sometimes when we decline a submission, I’ll offer congratulations on having work from that submission accepted elsewhere. Happy to see that a fellow writer got good news. We do state that writers should submit only once in any category during any submission period (we’re open for two four-month submission periods per year). There’s always the opportunity to include that “replacement” poem in a group for the next submission period. Or, as mentioned, in a batch for another journal.
Also, when withdrawing one piece out of a group, do use the Message option in Submittable when letting a journal know that work was accepted elsewhere. It’s so simple. (As a writer, my own message is usually something like: “Please withdraw X from consideration. Apologies for any inconvenience.” That’s all.)
If you email the editor, the editor has to find the work and write a note. A little extra work, but no big deal.
Don’t use the Withdraw button for a partial withdrawal. When you do that, you’re withdrawing the entire submission, and work that’s still available could end up being archived. Writers used to do that a lot. Not seeing too much of that now.
If the journal doesn’t use Submittable, you should email the editor. As a writer, I keep a simple Word table for tracking (old school, but it works for me, and I’m probably not as prolific a writer as some of you). I can sort by journal names and poem/story titles.
Sometimes a journal’s submission guidelines state some other policy, so it doesn’t hurt to check.
A note about that Submittable “Note” box: Nobody sees that note except you. It’s private, and I mentioned to Submittable that it might be a good idea to make that clear somehow. Found that out the hard way. I once used Note instead of Message to notify a journal about a withdrawal. Of course they didn’t see it. I was sure embarrassed . . .
Sorry—I got seriously sidetracked there. : )
When you withdraw work, do you name the magazine where the piece has been accepted?
Personally, no. I don’t think it’s relevant. As an editor—the bottom line: That particular work is no longer available to us. I’m happy that the writer has received good news. That’s it.
Editors, please chime in. What happens at your magazine when a poet removes a single poem from a batch of submitted poems?
I take a quick look at the Messages tab for any multi-piece submission to make sure I’m not spending time reading work that was accepted elsewhere. Then I read all work still available for consideration. As long as we’re all treating each other with courtesy, it’s good.
One thing I’ve noticed is that after I withdrawal a poem is that about a third of the publications begin to pay attention. I get a lot of declines on the rest of the packets and in three (so not statistically relevant) cases I did get acceptances. For the remaining two-thirds I’m not even sure they noticed the withdrawal as not one but two publications accepted the withdrawn poem in which I politely advised that if I scroll down in messages in submittable I can see that I withdrew that poem on x date. They apologize and move on.
I don’t even say “accepted elsewhere” unless I’m given the prompt, “reason for withdrawal,” and I’ve never named where a given poem was accepted. I start with an email to the editor(s) stating, “I need to withdraw poem x, but I hope you will continue to consider poems y and z.” I keep track with a chart whose columns are labeled submission date, publication, poem title(s), status (Y/N/WD), and notes (date of acceptance/withdrawal/rejection, high or low tier rejection, nice or not nice editor, submission platform if not Submittable, et al.) If a poem that I’ve simultaneously submitted gets accepted, I just search the document for every instance of that poem’s title and withdraw it from all those places. Fiction is SO much easier. One document/title at a time, and so much easier to place. I’ve placed 9 of the 13 fiction pieces I’ve submitted, but only something like 4% of my poetry submissions have resulted in acceptances.
Is withdrawing one (or more) poem the kiss of death for a submission?
In my experience, No. I would guestimate that 40-50% of the journals will accept a poem (or several) from the packet.
Upon receiving an acceptence from a journal, I always immediately write to all the others to which I had submitted the poem(s). I indicate which poems are still available -- and add a tagline of being sorry for any inconvenience it may cause and that I look forward to hearing from them. I do not mention which journal had accepted it.
I am pleasantly surprised at how many journals congratulate me and indicate they will consider the others. Several have said it is no inconvenience at all.
Only in the case of having to totally withdraw a submission do I mention the reason (all works have been accepted by another journal / other journals) and offer to send another packet of poems. Sometimes (rarely), a journal will request another packet -- but more often, that I submit during the next submission window.
I guess I will be the one that goes against the grain. When I withdraw a story (I stopped sending poems out a while back because it got too confusing). I do tell. I do let them know that Awesome Literary Journal is going to publish Great American Story. I do thank them for their time and effort. Why do this? The logo of a major publisher is a guy going around a field throwing seeds. As writers, our stories and poems are seeds of ideas and emotions. We live in a world of constant rejection, so we spread those seeds into rocks, into sand, into rich black earth and then we hope. Lo and behold, our seed finds a home, not on that rich black soil, since everyone is sending stuff there, but in that rocky destitute terrain. So yeah, brag, announce. Let them know.
Is withdrawing a piece because it was accepted elsewhere a "Kiss of death"? Quite the opposite, really. It demonstrates that another editor found the work worthy of acceptance and that definitely has an effect on how editors view a package. Heck, as an editor I would sometimes have people whose work just went so fast! It got scooped up by other journals so quickly because it was that good. So I ended up making a little note that the next time we got work from that individual we'd just straight-up take it if it wasn't a disaster. Happened enough to be a semi-regular occurrence.
Publisher's perspective here. Winning Writers administrates four literary contests, and we really appreciate it when contestants tell us promptly that something they submitted to us was accepted elsewhere. The worst is when we're about to award a prize and the author says the work is not available to us anymore.
Our contests accept previously published work. This means that even if a submission is accepted elsewhere while we're judging it, we often can retain it in our contest (when all parties consent). We're happy to note a prior publication when we publish a work.
If an author wants to withdraw a submission before our contest deadline date, we'll generally let them substitute a different work if we have not yet judged their submission. Sometimes we let them do this even if the deadline has passed.
Contestants can tell us which other publisher accepted their work, but it has no impact on our judging. Those are not details we share with our judges. The judges won't know if any poems within a submission were accepted elsewhere, withdrawn, or substituted after the original submission.
My experiences are similar to many others who have posted, but I've never offered up a replacement poem, and I have the impression that would annoy many poetry editors. I also never mention that the other poems are still available because that is implicit in my message that I'm withdrawing a single poem (my submissions rarely involved interlinked poems so I've never dealt with that potential decision, i.e., withdrawal of all). I also always inform the editor(s) that the withdrawal is because the poem has been accepted elsewhere (my only reason for a withdrawal). As someone else mentioned, I do think it draws attention to one's work and may give some editors a kick in the tuchas regarding decisions, etc. But in a number of submissions, especially for reviews that have long decision times (say 4-6 months, which is true for many top-tier reviews), that doesn't seem to provoke any sort of positive response. Right now I have a submission that's been sitting at a journal since mid-September and in the interim, four of the five poems have been accepted elsewhere. I do try to submit to quality reviews that have shorter decision times, but sometimes it's a mixture and I find myself the the aforementioned situation more often than not.
Part of my job was processing poetry withdrawals the year I was an editorial assistant for The Southern Review. I just congratulated anyone withdrawing on their acceptance elsewhere, CC'd the poetry editor so she'd know if she'd already read that packet, and made a note in our non-Submittable internal submissions manager.
I wasn't very involved in poetry selection, but my sense is it made no difference for the other poems in the packet. Definitely not a kiss of death if any of the other poems were a good fit for the issue. Especially because (I'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned this yet) the editors were considering how any particular poem (or prose piece) fit within the overall theme of an issue and also trying to ensure a good spread and balance of work and writers (ie some long-established voices, some new folks, etc) featured in any issue.
I think those things — fit with theme and line-up — were important factors that could only be judged on a poem-by-poem basis and had nothing to do with whether a different poem had been accepted elsewhere.
Magazines will quite often accept up to 3 submissions at once for flash or micro fiction, and I've found that withdrawing one or more doesn’t result in instant rejection. I subbed 3 stories simultaneously to one mag and withdrew them one at a time as other magazines accepted them. The editor sent congratulations after each withdrawal, and after the third, mentioned that the story had been in their final round. My excel spreadsheet works well for me!
I'm surprised so many commentators say they never say in their withdrawal note where a piece has been accepted. I always tell them. Why not? Just curious.
It’s not that cumbersome to withdraw a single poem, usually through submittable. Sometimes they ask you to email the editors directly, which can be problematic if they don’t respond. I never name the accepting journal, or even say it was accepted elsewhere. I just say I must withdraw this poem, sorry for any inconvenience this may cause. Some journals send congratulatory notes back, which is nice. Cincinnati Review is one of those. I like to think a withdrawal motivates them to look closer at the remaining poems, but have no evidence to support this. I cap the number of places any one poem is submitted at 12, so I would never have to send more than 11 withdrawals.
As an editor, my response time of <24 hours means I have stopped accepting simsubs. That hasn't stopped people from either accidentally or deliberately ignoring this, but at the same time, it has no effect on me if a poet has to withdraw one poem out of a batch.
Nobody is getting paid/paid enough in all this to bear any sort of grudges!
I don’t do simultaneous submissions, which makes me an oddball outlier as far as poets.
As far as keeping track, I use Duotrope and a binder. The binder is divided alphabetically, A poem titles, B poem titles, etc. I print out each poem and in the back side also track the submissions (journal and date sent, response, date of response, plus any notes, such as Try Again, not at all!, etc.).
The first page of the binder, before the sections, is where I list available poems that are ready to be submitted. I draw a line through the title when I submit it. When I get rejections, those poems are added to this paper. Once it gets too messy, I rewrite it.
The sheets of poems that get published are put into another binder.
I also have other binders with chapbook and full-length collections that I am submitting. These are revised and updated a lot.
I also have folders in my desktop for Journal Submissions, Contest Submissions, Manuscript Submissions, Acceptances, Rejections, Try Again Rejections, and Non Poetry Submissions. When I send a submission, I put copies of the poems I am submitting plus that journal’s guidelines into a folder and name that folder by the journal’s title. Those folders get distributed in the folders mentioned above.
Yes, I do have some OCD issues. I never realized how complicated my organization appears until now, trying to describe it. But it works for me, keeps me on top of everything, and gives me lots of backups.
I use an Excel spreadsheet with poem name in the second column, journal name in the next, genre of submission [poem, prose poem, haibun, flash, etc.], submission date and method [cost, if any, gets tracked on a separate spreadsheet as a business expense], and finally any other comments, for example, date submitted, email if sent directly or Submittable, etc., and finally declined with comment on date. The first column is a simple Accepted, Declined, or Withdrawn. Works under consideration I highlight the entire line in red so that I can easily see what's out. This way I can easily see which journals I have to notify with my "Please remove X from consideration because it has been accepted elsewhere. Thank you for considering the remaining poems title, title, title." This way I can also track if an editor made comments about wanting to see more work and the timeline between the submission and the decision. I have not yet had a poem accepted from a remaining group of poems after I've withdrawn one. Accepted works get highlighted in green and also then copied to another spreadsheet of accepted works and publication information and payment.
If all of this tracking seems like a chore, I don't think of it that way because I can respectfully withdraw submissions easily, as well as keep good tax records, and update my website and CV very quickly.
When I've withdrawn accepted poems and flash/microfiction from submission packets, I sometimes notice a speedier evaluation of work by editors. Maybe they're feeling a fire lit under their butts, a "ya snooze, ya lose" vibe; or maybe receiving a message from me prompts them to go "hmm, may as well evaluate this one now, no time like the present" (as in, now my message is at the top of their inbox). I don't think withdrawing increase acceptances, but it may increase encouraging, tiered rejections, in my experience. However, it's impossible to know for sure if the work would have received that response in the first place, or if the editor was influenced by seeing my work as in demand due to the acceptance.
Oh yeah, I forgot to share a funny story. One time I sent an editor a notice that I was withdrawing a poem, and he kindly informed me that my submission had been rejected months earlier. Maybe it went to my spam folder, who knows? I thought it was just taking them forever to get back to me.
Since, on average, you have to submit 20 poems, stories or essays to get one published, it’s important to keep track of it all. You can’t count on an editor being charmed by your “oops” email. I need three logs to keep track of it all. For 10 years it has worked well. I have a publishing destination log which keeps tract of everything I have submitted to each publisher, plus useful information like submission links, editor’s email, preferred font types, etc. Then I have a tracking submissions log which is a chronological table showing the name of the work, who I sent it to on what date, whether I paid a fee, and the date it was accepted or rejected. The third log I call the publishing fodder log. This log keeps track of everything that has happened to an individual work – where it was submitted, and when it was accepted or rejected. This log is very useful if you have to withdraw a submission, because it shows all the sites where the work is still waiting for a decision, and which you need to contact for the withdrawal. It takes no more than a minute to complete the log entries when I make a submission. In the situation where a poet is submitting a group of poems, and only the group has a title, to keep track of them in a log would require naming them individually. Perhaps the first line or first few words can serve the purpose.
I appreciate this post - I recently had a poem accepted but it was the most lukewarm half-assed acceptance I’ve ever experienced! The gist being, they accepted it, but couldn’t tell me when they would publish it, and I was NOT TO EVER reach out and ask when it would appear online. Furthermore, it would be six months before they would know IF they had space in the print magazine. They would pay me $20 and hope I donated it back to the magazine. I conferred with friends, and I withdrew it. It felt disorganized to me - why would a journal accept a piece it didn’t have space for? And I disagree with that writers should never know or reach out to check when a piece will appear. Just because writers are a dime a dozen doesn’t mean we should be treated that way! But I found myself wondering if I was being snarky against a volunteer dependent organization, which is why I reached out to several writer friends to ask their opinion (they agreed I should withdraw it).
I still keep an excel spreadsheet of submissions - not all magazines use submittable and some still require email submissions. The spreadsheet helps me know where things are and I color code the lines so I can easily count up how many submissions are out for each piece.
When withdrawing a poem, I never name the journal that accepted it. I think that withdrawing a single poem sometimes results in a faster response with respect to the remaining poems (and occasionally a "Congratulations!" email). However, it's never been the case (for me personally) that after withdrawing numerous poems from a packet such that only one remains, a journal has accepted the lone poem. I track my submissions/withdrawals through Duotrope, which makes the withdrawal process tolerable, if not completely painless.
I don’t say where a poem has been accepted if I need to withdraw it. Nor do I replace it with another poem, since that would be stuffing a new submission into a group that’s already under consideration. And, as far as I can tell, there’s no way of knowing how or whether making a withdrawal impacts the editor(s) unless I get a response that specifically addresses the withdrawal. I think most lit mags that accept simultaneous submissions are OK with withdrawals.
I started out logging submissions on notepaper in a binder, and wish I hadn't! If something I've submitted gets accepted, I have to page through the binder to identify which journals must be notified to withdraw that poem. Going through Submittable is much easier, but not all journals, as we know, subscribe to that platform. I did divide my binder up into poems submitted, chapbook manuscripts submitted, and residency applications, so it's not all bad. And I have gotten some very lovely responses from editors congratulating me on placing a poem elsewhere. Most of the time, I will say where the poem got accepted, and ask that the others in the submission continue to be considered. I don't think it's the kiss of death to do that. I've had poems accepted even though I had to withdraw one (or two!) from the original submission.
I'm 74, so I have an old-fashioned way to keep track of my different poems, stories, short plays, and flash pieces. I devote an index card to each work. The card has the title and 3 columns: 1 for where I sent the work, 1 for the date that I sent it out, and 1 for the date of rejection or acceptance. If the work gets accepted and published, I also fill out all of the publication details. I have all of the cards filed alphabetically in two places: my out-for-consideration box and my accepted/published box.
I try to avoid submitting the same work to more than one place at the same time, but I send out a lot of query e-mails and messages on Submittable because many journals and presses take much longer than they state on their websites to respond to manuscripts. This is a disrespectful way to treat authors. I proclaim in my query that if I do not hear from the editors by a certain date, I will send the work to another publication/press.
I used to edit the literary journal Primavera. We editors stated in our guidelines that we did not want simultaneous submissions. Therefore, we got annoyed with authors who withdrew work because they were disregarding our guidelines. We felt annoyed even if the author was famous because we spent a lot of staff time on each manuscript and wrote individual, specific responses to every submission. Primavera no longer exists, but we did receive thank you letters for our detailed suggestions for revision.
Best wishes for the spring!
Sincerely,
Janet Ruth Heller
Author of the poetry books Nature’s Olympics (Wipf and Stock, 2021), Exodus (WordTech Editions, 2014), Folk Concert: Changing Times (Anaphora Literary Press, 2012) and Traffic Stop (Finishing Line Press, 2011), the scholarly book Coleridge, Lamb, Hazlitt, and the Reader of Drama (University of Missouri Press, 1990), the middle-grade chapter book for kids The Passover Surprise (Fictive Press, 2015, 2016), and the award-winning picture book for kids about bullying, How the Moon Regained Her Shape (Arbordale, 2006; seventh edition 2022).
Just today my partner accused me of being more of a spreadsheet geek than a writer, because of all the time I spend on my spreadsheet with many tabs charting publications I'm tracking, submission history, and cross-referencing poems and where they've been sent. It's even spawned a second spreadsheet to manage bundles. I love a good spreadhseet!
I have had to withdraw poems a few times. One was from a prestigious journal that never even acknowledged the withdrawal and eventually rejected all with a curt form rejection after nine months. The other times it benefitted my remaining poems and in both cases it raised the submission in the eyes of the editor, and another poem in each bundle was selected. One even said as much! I didn't say where they were accepted because I didn't think it was relevant and nor did they ask.
I don’t think that withdrawing one poem is usually the kiss of death for the whole submission. It could even lend a sense of urgency to reviewing the rest of the submission. (This leads me to something I never understood until recently. So many lit mags ask you to let them know if the submission is simultaneously being submitted elsewhere. I used to think this would prejudice the editors against the work, but now it seems to me that the purpose of the request is so they can act quickly if they love it.)
I’ve offered to replace accepted poems. Nobody ever says yes.
It doesn’t really matter how many poems the magazine will accept unless it’s a contest.
I always name the magazine where the piece has been accepted. We should all be proud of our acceptances.
I can’t speak for poetry editors.
Keeping track of submissions is not difficult. There is a small Excel engine built into Word for making tables. I have a page or so of entries at all times. As I submit, I add a column with the name of the journal at the top, and each submitted poem below in its own box. When I get a rejection or acceptance, I delete that column and run a search for the particular poem or poems in the document. I then send a message or email to each of the other magazines where the poem was submitted and delete the entries in their boxes as I go. This method has worked for me for the last 8 years. (I also add the date of submission in the title box of each column if that submission is not on Submittable. Keeps down confusion and lets me know how long the submission has been out there.
My poem-withdraw process is-- go to my spreadsheet to see where else I submitted the poem; go to each journal's website to see how they handle withdrawals; follow the instructions and say the poem was accepted "elsewhere"; color-code the poem as accepted on my spreadsheet; update the status of the submissions on Chill Sub Tracker. The response from ediotrs is usually congratulatory. Sometimes they accepted another poem from the packet. I don't keep track of that number. Maybe 80-20 accept versus decline the remainder?
Re: keeping track of subs, since that's a hot topic on this thread, I use an Excel spreadsheet. So easy to search, and with hundreds of subs and dozens of pieces, ease is key.
I often have several pieces out to a bunch of mags, and to reduce my stress (especially if it's a poem/micro/flash in a bundle of others—complexity!), I keep lists of each piece, where they're submitted, and those mags' various protocols in the event I need to withdraw. These lists live on my Notes app, conveniently shared to both my computer and iPhone. I also have a basic withdrawal letter ready to go for editors where I can copy/paste the relevant information accordingly. This comes in extremely handy when one is, say, on vacation, without a computer, and an acceptance necessitates withdrawing a piece from ten lit mags who use Submittable, Google forms, Moksha, Oleada, some university uploading system, email, etc.
I write flash fiction and almost never submit multiple pieces at once (unless there’s a monetary incentive or it’s a contest) because it gets so awkward withdrawing them one at a time. Also, maybe this is just me, but i worry once my best story has been accepted elsewhere, the other stories in the submission will look like yesterday’s leftovers.
I have often wondered if journals just reject the rest of the poetry packet once one is withdrawn--but that doesn't seem to be a very good practice does it? I haven't noticed whether or not other poems from the packet tend to be accepted or rejected. I keep an excel sheet too--it seems a lot of poets keep track that way!--and always immediately withdraw a poem from other magazines once it is accepted. I don't name the journal that accepted it because I like to be mysterious.
Ah, yes - changed titles...and my excel is alphabetized by title so I can see potential Sim subs (which I also color code so I don't miss them. I put the old title first in parentheses and the new alongside. I color code waiting-to-hear, rejections, acceptances, and add notes and another color after that column, particularly "we look forward to seeing more work from you" and lit mags where I've been pubbed and I want to sub there again.
I'm a fiction writer, and I've sent of batches of flash fiction or longer stories to mags that accept multiples. I've had mags accept one of a pair or trio. I then go about withdrawing it from consideration elsewhere (I use Duotrope & Chill Subs to track submissions). Magazines state whether they want me to withdraw over the submission platform or via email, and I follow that protocol, but I'm not happy with withdrawing over Submittable. It doesn't give me a "partial withdrawal" option. So, I get B's concern. I suspect a whole batch of three sent via Submittable is tagged "withdrawn" and is pulled from consideration even if I attach a note saying that story "A" and "B" are still available. Do they remain under consideration? Good question. The answer's sure to be magazine/editor specific. So far, I haven't withdrawn one piece and had any of the remaining pieces accepted. I hope more editors chime in on this to enlighten us. As far as letting someone know where a withdrawn piece has been accepted, I'm inconsistent. I do thank them for their understanding, time, and consideration. And I really appreciate the editors who send me congratulatory notes! I feel heard. Thanks for raising this issue, Becky!
On several occasions, I've had to withdraw a poem or two, only to have one of the lit mags I had to withdraw from reject the others and say they really loved the one I withdrew. Oh well! Guess they should have jumped on it, then. All you can do is move forward.
I keep an Excel sheet with poem title, date submitted, date the mag should respond (estimate usually), Received, In Progress, A(ccepted), R(ejected0, Withdrawn, and occasionally, a ? because they mag didn’t respond as receiving my poems. I only deal in poetry, btw. I highlight simsubs, and highlight acceptances, and withdrawn poems with their own color. The hardest part, is that I’ve submitted to lit mags that don’t use submittable so it is harder to let them know if a poem has been accepted or not, and to even track. While I use Duotrope, I find that is unbelievably clunky for me (I’m old, btw). I haven’t ever mentioned the mag where the poem is accepted, but I might now, based on this conversation, but I always say that X, Y, Z (naming them) are still available for consideration. Sometimes, I get a “congratulations” back, usually if they accept one of the other poems, maybe once when they rejected the rest of the package. Personally, I hate tracking, but it is a necessary evil. I think there must be a poem with this theme, right?
You said, "With a fiction submission, there is just a single document. If it gets accepted elsewhere, you simply withdraw the piece from everywhere else the story is currently out." Where did you get that idea? Have you never submitted multiple pieces of flash fiction or nonfiction as part of a single submission, as most journals allow? Have you never submitted multiple pieces of fiction or nonfiction in response to a call in which a journal allows multiple pieces up to a maximum word limit? It sounds like your analogy is based on rather limited experience.
As for the initial question, my answer is, "to the contrary." When you withdraw a single poem (or piece of fiction or nonfiction or hybrid or photo or, whatever, you are showing the journal that you are responsible. That's positive. It also draws attention to you. When I withdraw a single piece, I'm always careful to say, "The other pieces are still available." At times, when a journal has been overly slow, an initial submission of five pieces might dwindle down to only one or two pieces. At each stage, I withdraw single pieces and say X Y and Z are still available. In a few cases, I've gone so far as to say, "They're going fast. Better act soon." Now and then, with photos, when I've withdrawn one image, I've offered possible replacements. Once, when I offered four possible replacements for a single photo, the journal--which is highly respected--responded, "We've never done this before, but we'll take all four," which made me the featured artist Bottom line, acting like a responsible citizen by withdrawing a piece that is accepted elsewhere brings attention to you in a positive way. If anything, it puts you in a positive light. Do not fear looking like you're a responsible citizen.
Thanks so much, Becky, for opening up this subject, and such a great response already! My two cents:
- Withdrawals = the Kiss of Death? I cannot say for sure, but very much doubt it.
- No, I don’t name the publication that has accepted the poem.
- No, I never offer a replacement poem.
- I’d be utterly lost without my Excel sheet: 1st column – titles; 2nd – how many items of which genre (e.g. 5 poems); 3rd – name of publication; 4th – method of submission (e.g. Submittable or email); 5th – date submitted; 6th – rejected or accepted; 7th – date of rejection/acceptance; 8th – misc. comments (e.g. very nice rejection, i.e. sub again). This helps make the withdrawal process relatively fast and simple.
I submit to many magazines and contests. Almost all say to be notified of acceptance somewhere else, and to withdraw the accepted piece. None have said that the other entries are affected. Also, since the submission date has likely passed, a new submission is too late. Also, each submission is considered as a separate entry, so previous entries re not affected.
I recently had a story I'd been sending out for quite a good while with no takers accepted by two publications within a few weeks of each other. I was a bit late informing the second publication and about the previous acceptance. I felt remiss and wasn't sure how to proceed. I sat myself down to face the music. I thanked the second journal for their acceptance wrote a genuinely apologetic note regarding my tardiness. They replied with a note of congratulations and wished me luck. I feel redeemed and delighted at their kind response.
This does sometimes apply to prose writers, when they submit several flash pieces to a single journal (something we do at Submitit with our flash packages). One of the concerns mentioned was if withdrawing one piece hurts the others' chances. We haven't been submitting flash packages for long enough to know for sure about this, but we did recently have a client get three stories (submitted as a group) accepted to three different journals. Each time one of the stories was accepted (and in this case, oddly, it was always only one piece accepted from among the group), we withdrew that piece from pending journals (usually in a message on Submittable or in an email (and, no, we didn't mention the accepting journal's name)). And he still managed to get all three pieces accepted (he's a solid writer, by the way). So my guess—and, again, it's still just a guess at this point—is that withdrawing one piece doesn't hurt the other pieces' chances. But perhaps a better question: Is it worth the headache of keeping track of everything? I'm undecided. I'll do it for clients, but I'm starting to avoid group submissions with my own flash fiction.
Another crazy lit mag ordeal occurred on January 31, 2024 when a press's founder & funder resigned and the staff explained to me the difficulties he left them to manage, even as he ghosted his own staff.
This turmoil also cancelled one of my book deals since this had been an indie book publisher as well as a producer of lit mags and themed anthologies. Ironically, their current antho is on mental illness and the instability caused.
No doubt Becky Tuch will feature that lit mag debacle soon enough.
On no less than three occasions, when I withdrew a poem from consideration via SUBMITTABLE, this happened to me: the poem was accepted and then I had to scramble thru my own handwritten notes to back up details on the date when I had withdrawn it.
Each time the editors said that the note had not shown up in SUBMITTABLE.
Can this really be true???
As a poet who submits poems for consideration every single day, why can't SUBMITTABLE do its job - - instead of giving me more agita is what I want to know.
Since I submit my writing every day, I've learned to rely on my own indispensable writer's journal to keep track because these submission platforms have flaws.
I don’t run open poetry submissions, so my point of view is limited. However, since pieces being cancelled/schedules changing is a feature of most periodicals, I can tell you that not notifying an editor of a change right away is a bad idea. No matter your rationale, you don’t want to mess with an editor’s schedule. If an editor accepts a piece only to be told it was accepted elsewhere and you didn’t mention it, your name would probably be remembered for unprofessionalism. The world of lit mag editors isn’t that large and they talk.
The plus side is that since it is a common occurrence, all you have to do is notify the editor and you’re fine. Don’t submit an alternate poem unless they ask. It’s unlikely to negatively impact the editor’s view of your other work, because it’s part of normal business. Personally, I wouldn’t name drop the magazine who accepted first unless I already had a relationship with the recipient. At best, it’s irrelevant, plus it might be read as cockiness. Not disqualifying, but never a good look.
I make it easy on myself. I typically submit to lit mags that don’t accept simultaneous submissions. I use my own tracking system (not infallible) and SUBMITTABLE.
Eh, I just send to journals with a fast or at least reasonable turn-around times. By fast, I mean two weeks or less, and by reasonable, I mean three to six weeks. Six to eight weeks is pushing it. Anything beyond that, it's highly doubtful I'll send work. I find this a good way to balance my disdain for book-keeping with getting work published in fairly short order at some venue or another where I'm cool with having it appear. And, given there are good number of outlets that provide such response times, I don't really feel limited in terms of options.
The majority of prose pieces I submit are flash fiction or flash creative nonfiction. As with poems, most literary journals allow one to submit 2 or 3 at a time, usually in a single document. I have, on occasion, had to withdraw a single submission without incurring obvious repercussions. In fact, one journal sent me a note via submittable to thank me for informing them and congratulated me on my acceptance elsewhere.
Also, rather than withdraw and resubmit a piece, I've twice submitted requests to edit a piece, via submittable. That way, one doesn't begin the whole submission process all over again with "Received" and retains the "In Process" status. Both requests were met with polite notes allowing me to do so.
For me, I've avoided simsubs like the plague because its stressful, but in a very few selections that I thought were a great match I did, and a very few were accidents while I was still learning my system. So the one time something was picked up left a very not good taste in my mouth and I do consider it the kiss of death, though I will still make sure I am always courteous and withdraw, as long as my system accounts for it.
My submission had been in submittable for months with no change to in progress (though I know sometimes it can be read without that) and literally a day after I withdrew one piece I received a full rejection. Now, what I like to think happened is that they were seriously considering that piece and had already decided against the other so there was no point in holding everything. But what it felt like is that they completely forgot about me and when I withdrew a piece they were a bit petty and just discarded the whole thing without consideration. Unfortunately the other place folded, not letting us know for too long and it never got published.
I personally would never tell a place where it was accepted. What if they had beef with the other publication?
This year I have increased my simsubs and its an absolute nightmare to keep track of. I don't know how others do it. I don't plan to keep it up for long, only while I have to for a few select pieces that have time expirations and so would benefit from simsubbing, but once I do I don't think I will continue at this rate. Its unpleasant.
Here is my tracking system:
a database type spreadsheet
-all pieces, submissions, publishers go in their own spreadsheet which cross reference each other. I mark the submissions submitted rejected simsub etc. along with a lot of other information
-I have one database view which is just checkmarks to make sure I put it everywhere
a google doc
-every piece goes in it in alphabetical order where after each link to the piece in my folder I put simply rejected, active (for first times), re-submitted, accepted, sim sub with a color code,
grinder
-use like grinder
submittable
-I track non submittables there as well
email
-I email myself a copy of the submission, I tag all of them by publisher, name, what it is (submission receipt, rejection, communication, acceptance) and give it a little icon based on what it is.
If i didn't do all of this my head would spin in confusion and now with more sim subs I feel like I need to do something different but I don't know what.
First let me say that I only submit a work--a story, an essay, or a bundle of poems--to a few lit mags at a time. If the work has been accepted elsewhere, I follow the guidelines of the lit mag, whether through email, Submittable, or their proprietary submission manager. That could be a message or a note and Submittable has a "withdraw" button. I do not name the lit mag that accepted the work.
I don't think withdrawing a single poem from the pack is a kiss of death. But the process is a pain in the patootie.
I have to say I was more than pleasantly surprised when I received notes back from two lit mags from which I'd withdrawn work, congratulating me.
A comment from Tara A. Elliot, who had trouble posting her comment here:
I used to keep spreadsheets religiously. I got very mired in the details. As a very busy mom, a teacher, and the director of our local writing organization (ESWA), I noticed I was spending my time tracking instead of writing or publishing. I realized that I wasn't sending out not because I was scared of rejection but because I was scared of spending all that time tracking on my spreadsheet. My spreadsheets were color coded and looked gorgeous but I wasn't getting published.
During the pandemic, I started sending out and using Submittable to track. It's somewhat of a convoluted system but it works for me:
I title the submission by the poem titles -- this makes it easy to find pieces when they've been accepted (I use the search feature in Submittable) and I need to withdraw a particular poem. When I submit, I put a note in the notes field as to whom to contact while I still have the guidelines open in front of me. If the journal is not on Submittable, I use the "External Submissions" to track, and make a note in the "Notes" tab on the submission as to whether it's the journal's online submission manager, or on email. I mark all the sent out submissions "Received" in the External Submissions. I use "Sent" to keep a running list of upcoming submissions that I want to hit and date them accordingly so I don't forget to send something out by the deadline.
When I withdraw a piece, I write to the editor stating, "Dear Editor, I am withdrawing the poem "Title" from my submission dated "Date" under the name "X" because it has been picked up by X Journal. The rest of the submission remains available (sometimes: except for XX which I already notified you about)." I was worried I'd seem less gracious somehow by naming the journal but after reading Kelli Agodon's excellent essay, "Submit Like a Man" (which I now reread everytime I sit down to submit), I realized I might just be shortchanging myself by not naming the journal, especially if it's a solid journal with a great reputation. I want to say editors are above noticing this, but why not give yourself an extra edge? I think as a woman I worried too much about how I was perceived. I fight against this still.
In much the same way that no writer writes the same way, I think submissions are much the same. My system works for me, saves me valuable time, and I can easily find poems that need to be withdrawn quickly and either post a message to the editor, or climb into my notes to find the email address to alert them. The only downside is when a journal uses the numbering system or they themselves title your submission (this is rare, but it happens). In that case, I put a note in the notes section so I can easily see which poems I sent out and check those submissions when withdrawing.
A side note, I don't think it's a "Kiss of Death" but rather works to the poet's favor. If nothing else, it helps build confidence. I used to worry, but now I celebrate in sending out withdrawal notices.
If sending a suite of poems for submission, I think the poet should note that in the cover letter in sending the batch out and target those magazines that might publish a suite.
It does seem "frowned upon" to offer another poem to replace the one that was taken. I learned this early on when I suggested it and editors although nice, were very much, "No need, thanks". If all the poems are taken, I just make a note and send another batch if rejected as quickly as the window allows. The downside is paying for submissions that all get accepted elsewhere, but I expect that happens to all writers, fiction, CNF, NF, and/or poets.
Every magazine that responds to the withdrawing of a poem has done so with grace and celebration so far. I've never had a magazine damn me. Most send a note like this one from Four Way:
Thank you for the update, Tara. We'll keep the rest of your packet under consideration.
The Editors
Hope this helps someone, and I hope that those reading find their own rhythm in submitting. It truly is a personal decision on how to do this effectively for each writer. There is no concrete way to do it that fits everyone's style -- do what best works for you, and tweak accordingly.
Tara A. Elliott
Is B. correct that withdrawing one poem from a batch is the “kiss of death” for the remaining available poems? Or could it work in the poet’s favor? Or neither?
Speaking as Baltimore Review editor: Neither. I always check the Messages tab for multi-piece submissions to make sure I’m not reading anything that was already accepted elsewhere. Then I read all work available for consideration. Really, the work itself is all that matters.
Do you typically offer to replace an accepted poem with a new one, or is that frowned upon?
As a writer, I don’t do this. I prefer to keep things simple for editors, and there are plenty of other journals.
As an editor: We receive multiple withdrawals (single piece and entire submission) every day, and this is fine. Sometimes when we decline a submission, I’ll offer congratulations on having work from that submission accepted elsewhere. Happy to see that a fellow writer got good news. We do state that writers should submit only once in any category during any submission period (we’re open for two four-month submission periods per year). There’s always the opportunity to include that “replacement” poem in a group for the next submission period. Or, as mentioned, in a batch for another journal.
Also, when withdrawing one piece out of a group, do use the Message option in Submittable when letting a journal know that work was accepted elsewhere. It’s so simple. (As a writer, my own message is usually something like: “Please withdraw X from consideration. Apologies for any inconvenience.” That’s all.)
If you email the editor, the editor has to find the work and write a note. A little extra work, but no big deal.
Don’t use the Withdraw button for a partial withdrawal. When you do that, you’re withdrawing the entire submission, and work that’s still available could end up being archived. Writers used to do that a lot. Not seeing too much of that now.
If the journal doesn’t use Submittable, you should email the editor. As a writer, I keep a simple Word table for tracking (old school, but it works for me, and I’m probably not as prolific a writer as some of you). I can sort by journal names and poem/story titles.
Sometimes a journal’s submission guidelines state some other policy, so it doesn’t hurt to check.
A note about that Submittable “Note” box: Nobody sees that note except you. It’s private, and I mentioned to Submittable that it might be a good idea to make that clear somehow. Found that out the hard way. I once used Note instead of Message to notify a journal about a withdrawal. Of course they didn’t see it. I was sure embarrassed . . .
Sorry—I got seriously sidetracked there. : )
When you withdraw work, do you name the magazine where the piece has been accepted?
Personally, no. I don’t think it’s relevant. As an editor—the bottom line: That particular work is no longer available to us. I’m happy that the writer has received good news. That’s it.
Editors, please chime in. What happens at your magazine when a poet removes a single poem from a batch of submitted poems?
I take a quick look at the Messages tab for any multi-piece submission to make sure I’m not spending time reading work that was accepted elsewhere. Then I read all work still available for consideration. As long as we’re all treating each other with courtesy, it’s good.
One thing I’ve noticed is that after I withdrawal a poem is that about a third of the publications begin to pay attention. I get a lot of declines on the rest of the packets and in three (so not statistically relevant) cases I did get acceptances. For the remaining two-thirds I’m not even sure they noticed the withdrawal as not one but two publications accepted the withdrawn poem in which I politely advised that if I scroll down in messages in submittable I can see that I withdrew that poem on x date. They apologize and move on.
I don’t even say “accepted elsewhere” unless I’m given the prompt, “reason for withdrawal,” and I’ve never named where a given poem was accepted. I start with an email to the editor(s) stating, “I need to withdraw poem x, but I hope you will continue to consider poems y and z.” I keep track with a chart whose columns are labeled submission date, publication, poem title(s), status (Y/N/WD), and notes (date of acceptance/withdrawal/rejection, high or low tier rejection, nice or not nice editor, submission platform if not Submittable, et al.) If a poem that I’ve simultaneously submitted gets accepted, I just search the document for every instance of that poem’s title and withdraw it from all those places. Fiction is SO much easier. One document/title at a time, and so much easier to place. I’ve placed 9 of the 13 fiction pieces I’ve submitted, but only something like 4% of my poetry submissions have resulted in acceptances.
Is withdrawing one (or more) poem the kiss of death for a submission?
In my experience, No. I would guestimate that 40-50% of the journals will accept a poem (or several) from the packet.
Upon receiving an acceptence from a journal, I always immediately write to all the others to which I had submitted the poem(s). I indicate which poems are still available -- and add a tagline of being sorry for any inconvenience it may cause and that I look forward to hearing from them. I do not mention which journal had accepted it.
I am pleasantly surprised at how many journals congratulate me and indicate they will consider the others. Several have said it is no inconvenience at all.
Only in the case of having to totally withdraw a submission do I mention the reason (all works have been accepted by another journal / other journals) and offer to send another packet of poems. Sometimes (rarely), a journal will request another packet -- but more often, that I submit during the next submission window.
I guess I will be the one that goes against the grain. When I withdraw a story (I stopped sending poems out a while back because it got too confusing). I do tell. I do let them know that Awesome Literary Journal is going to publish Great American Story. I do thank them for their time and effort. Why do this? The logo of a major publisher is a guy going around a field throwing seeds. As writers, our stories and poems are seeds of ideas and emotions. We live in a world of constant rejection, so we spread those seeds into rocks, into sand, into rich black earth and then we hope. Lo and behold, our seed finds a home, not on that rich black soil, since everyone is sending stuff there, but in that rocky destitute terrain. So yeah, brag, announce. Let them know.
Is withdrawing a piece because it was accepted elsewhere a "Kiss of death"? Quite the opposite, really. It demonstrates that another editor found the work worthy of acceptance and that definitely has an effect on how editors view a package. Heck, as an editor I would sometimes have people whose work just went so fast! It got scooped up by other journals so quickly because it was that good. So I ended up making a little note that the next time we got work from that individual we'd just straight-up take it if it wasn't a disaster. Happened enough to be a semi-regular occurrence.
Publisher's perspective here. Winning Writers administrates four literary contests, and we really appreciate it when contestants tell us promptly that something they submitted to us was accepted elsewhere. The worst is when we're about to award a prize and the author says the work is not available to us anymore.
Our contests accept previously published work. This means that even if a submission is accepted elsewhere while we're judging it, we often can retain it in our contest (when all parties consent). We're happy to note a prior publication when we publish a work.
If an author wants to withdraw a submission before our contest deadline date, we'll generally let them substitute a different work if we have not yet judged their submission. Sometimes we let them do this even if the deadline has passed.
Contestants can tell us which other publisher accepted their work, but it has no impact on our judging. Those are not details we share with our judges. The judges won't know if any poems within a submission were accepted elsewhere, withdrawn, or substituted after the original submission.
My experiences are similar to many others who have posted, but I've never offered up a replacement poem, and I have the impression that would annoy many poetry editors. I also never mention that the other poems are still available because that is implicit in my message that I'm withdrawing a single poem (my submissions rarely involved interlinked poems so I've never dealt with that potential decision, i.e., withdrawal of all). I also always inform the editor(s) that the withdrawal is because the poem has been accepted elsewhere (my only reason for a withdrawal). As someone else mentioned, I do think it draws attention to one's work and may give some editors a kick in the tuchas regarding decisions, etc. But in a number of submissions, especially for reviews that have long decision times (say 4-6 months, which is true for many top-tier reviews), that doesn't seem to provoke any sort of positive response. Right now I have a submission that's been sitting at a journal since mid-September and in the interim, four of the five poems have been accepted elsewhere. I do try to submit to quality reviews that have shorter decision times, but sometimes it's a mixture and I find myself the the aforementioned situation more often than not.
Part of my job was processing poetry withdrawals the year I was an editorial assistant for The Southern Review. I just congratulated anyone withdrawing on their acceptance elsewhere, CC'd the poetry editor so she'd know if she'd already read that packet, and made a note in our non-Submittable internal submissions manager.
I wasn't very involved in poetry selection, but my sense is it made no difference for the other poems in the packet. Definitely not a kiss of death if any of the other poems were a good fit for the issue. Especially because (I'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned this yet) the editors were considering how any particular poem (or prose piece) fit within the overall theme of an issue and also trying to ensure a good spread and balance of work and writers (ie some long-established voices, some new folks, etc) featured in any issue.
I think those things — fit with theme and line-up — were important factors that could only be judged on a poem-by-poem basis and had nothing to do with whether a different poem had been accepted elsewhere.
Magazines will quite often accept up to 3 submissions at once for flash or micro fiction, and I've found that withdrawing one or more doesn’t result in instant rejection. I subbed 3 stories simultaneously to one mag and withdrew them one at a time as other magazines accepted them. The editor sent congratulations after each withdrawal, and after the third, mentioned that the story had been in their final round. My excel spreadsheet works well for me!
I'm surprised so many commentators say they never say in their withdrawal note where a piece has been accepted. I always tell them. Why not? Just curious.
It’s not that cumbersome to withdraw a single poem, usually through submittable. Sometimes they ask you to email the editors directly, which can be problematic if they don’t respond. I never name the accepting journal, or even say it was accepted elsewhere. I just say I must withdraw this poem, sorry for any inconvenience this may cause. Some journals send congratulatory notes back, which is nice. Cincinnati Review is one of those. I like to think a withdrawal motivates them to look closer at the remaining poems, but have no evidence to support this. I cap the number of places any one poem is submitted at 12, so I would never have to send more than 11 withdrawals.
As an editor, my response time of <24 hours means I have stopped accepting simsubs. That hasn't stopped people from either accidentally or deliberately ignoring this, but at the same time, it has no effect on me if a poet has to withdraw one poem out of a batch.
Nobody is getting paid/paid enough in all this to bear any sort of grudges!
I don’t do simultaneous submissions, which makes me an oddball outlier as far as poets.
As far as keeping track, I use Duotrope and a binder. The binder is divided alphabetically, A poem titles, B poem titles, etc. I print out each poem and in the back side also track the submissions (journal and date sent, response, date of response, plus any notes, such as Try Again, not at all!, etc.).
The first page of the binder, before the sections, is where I list available poems that are ready to be submitted. I draw a line through the title when I submit it. When I get rejections, those poems are added to this paper. Once it gets too messy, I rewrite it.
The sheets of poems that get published are put into another binder.
I also have other binders with chapbook and full-length collections that I am submitting. These are revised and updated a lot.
I also have folders in my desktop for Journal Submissions, Contest Submissions, Manuscript Submissions, Acceptances, Rejections, Try Again Rejections, and Non Poetry Submissions. When I send a submission, I put copies of the poems I am submitting plus that journal’s guidelines into a folder and name that folder by the journal’s title. Those folders get distributed in the folders mentioned above.
Yes, I do have some OCD issues. I never realized how complicated my organization appears until now, trying to describe it. But it works for me, keeps me on top of everything, and gives me lots of backups.
I use an Excel spreadsheet with poem name in the second column, journal name in the next, genre of submission [poem, prose poem, haibun, flash, etc.], submission date and method [cost, if any, gets tracked on a separate spreadsheet as a business expense], and finally any other comments, for example, date submitted, email if sent directly or Submittable, etc., and finally declined with comment on date. The first column is a simple Accepted, Declined, or Withdrawn. Works under consideration I highlight the entire line in red so that I can easily see what's out. This way I can easily see which journals I have to notify with my "Please remove X from consideration because it has been accepted elsewhere. Thank you for considering the remaining poems title, title, title." This way I can also track if an editor made comments about wanting to see more work and the timeline between the submission and the decision. I have not yet had a poem accepted from a remaining group of poems after I've withdrawn one. Accepted works get highlighted in green and also then copied to another spreadsheet of accepted works and publication information and payment.
If all of this tracking seems like a chore, I don't think of it that way because I can respectfully withdraw submissions easily, as well as keep good tax records, and update my website and CV very quickly.
When I've withdrawn accepted poems and flash/microfiction from submission packets, I sometimes notice a speedier evaluation of work by editors. Maybe they're feeling a fire lit under their butts, a "ya snooze, ya lose" vibe; or maybe receiving a message from me prompts them to go "hmm, may as well evaluate this one now, no time like the present" (as in, now my message is at the top of their inbox). I don't think withdrawing increase acceptances, but it may increase encouraging, tiered rejections, in my experience. However, it's impossible to know for sure if the work would have received that response in the first place, or if the editor was influenced by seeing my work as in demand due to the acceptance.
Oh yeah, I forgot to share a funny story. One time I sent an editor a notice that I was withdrawing a poem, and he kindly informed me that my submission had been rejected months earlier. Maybe it went to my spam folder, who knows? I thought it was just taking them forever to get back to me.
Since, on average, you have to submit 20 poems, stories or essays to get one published, it’s important to keep track of it all. You can’t count on an editor being charmed by your “oops” email. I need three logs to keep track of it all. For 10 years it has worked well. I have a publishing destination log which keeps tract of everything I have submitted to each publisher, plus useful information like submission links, editor’s email, preferred font types, etc. Then I have a tracking submissions log which is a chronological table showing the name of the work, who I sent it to on what date, whether I paid a fee, and the date it was accepted or rejected. The third log I call the publishing fodder log. This log keeps track of everything that has happened to an individual work – where it was submitted, and when it was accepted or rejected. This log is very useful if you have to withdraw a submission, because it shows all the sites where the work is still waiting for a decision, and which you need to contact for the withdrawal. It takes no more than a minute to complete the log entries when I make a submission. In the situation where a poet is submitting a group of poems, and only the group has a title, to keep track of them in a log would require naming them individually. Perhaps the first line or first few words can serve the purpose.
I appreciate this post - I recently had a poem accepted but it was the most lukewarm half-assed acceptance I’ve ever experienced! The gist being, they accepted it, but couldn’t tell me when they would publish it, and I was NOT TO EVER reach out and ask when it would appear online. Furthermore, it would be six months before they would know IF they had space in the print magazine. They would pay me $20 and hope I donated it back to the magazine. I conferred with friends, and I withdrew it. It felt disorganized to me - why would a journal accept a piece it didn’t have space for? And I disagree with that writers should never know or reach out to check when a piece will appear. Just because writers are a dime a dozen doesn’t mean we should be treated that way! But I found myself wondering if I was being snarky against a volunteer dependent organization, which is why I reached out to several writer friends to ask their opinion (they agreed I should withdraw it).
I still keep an excel spreadsheet of submissions - not all magazines use submittable and some still require email submissions. The spreadsheet helps me know where things are and I color code the lines so I can easily count up how many submissions are out for each piece.
When withdrawing a poem, I never name the journal that accepted it. I think that withdrawing a single poem sometimes results in a faster response with respect to the remaining poems (and occasionally a "Congratulations!" email). However, it's never been the case (for me personally) that after withdrawing numerous poems from a packet such that only one remains, a journal has accepted the lone poem. I track my submissions/withdrawals through Duotrope, which makes the withdrawal process tolerable, if not completely painless.
I don’t say where a poem has been accepted if I need to withdraw it. Nor do I replace it with another poem, since that would be stuffing a new submission into a group that’s already under consideration. And, as far as I can tell, there’s no way of knowing how or whether making a withdrawal impacts the editor(s) unless I get a response that specifically addresses the withdrawal. I think most lit mags that accept simultaneous submissions are OK with withdrawals.
I started out logging submissions on notepaper in a binder, and wish I hadn't! If something I've submitted gets accepted, I have to page through the binder to identify which journals must be notified to withdraw that poem. Going through Submittable is much easier, but not all journals, as we know, subscribe to that platform. I did divide my binder up into poems submitted, chapbook manuscripts submitted, and residency applications, so it's not all bad. And I have gotten some very lovely responses from editors congratulating me on placing a poem elsewhere. Most of the time, I will say where the poem got accepted, and ask that the others in the submission continue to be considered. I don't think it's the kiss of death to do that. I've had poems accepted even though I had to withdraw one (or two!) from the original submission.
Dear Writing Friends,
I'm 74, so I have an old-fashioned way to keep track of my different poems, stories, short plays, and flash pieces. I devote an index card to each work. The card has the title and 3 columns: 1 for where I sent the work, 1 for the date that I sent it out, and 1 for the date of rejection or acceptance. If the work gets accepted and published, I also fill out all of the publication details. I have all of the cards filed alphabetically in two places: my out-for-consideration box and my accepted/published box.
I try to avoid submitting the same work to more than one place at the same time, but I send out a lot of query e-mails and messages on Submittable because many journals and presses take much longer than they state on their websites to respond to manuscripts. This is a disrespectful way to treat authors. I proclaim in my query that if I do not hear from the editors by a certain date, I will send the work to another publication/press.
I used to edit the literary journal Primavera. We editors stated in our guidelines that we did not want simultaneous submissions. Therefore, we got annoyed with authors who withdrew work because they were disregarding our guidelines. We felt annoyed even if the author was famous because we spent a lot of staff time on each manuscript and wrote individual, specific responses to every submission. Primavera no longer exists, but we did receive thank you letters for our detailed suggestions for revision.
Best wishes for the spring!
Sincerely,
Janet Ruth Heller
Author of the poetry books Nature’s Olympics (Wipf and Stock, 2021), Exodus (WordTech Editions, 2014), Folk Concert: Changing Times (Anaphora Literary Press, 2012) and Traffic Stop (Finishing Line Press, 2011), the scholarly book Coleridge, Lamb, Hazlitt, and the Reader of Drama (University of Missouri Press, 1990), the middle-grade chapter book for kids The Passover Surprise (Fictive Press, 2015, 2016), and the award-winning picture book for kids about bullying, How the Moon Regained Her Shape (Arbordale, 2006; seventh edition 2022).
My website is https://www.janetruthheller.com/
Just today my partner accused me of being more of a spreadsheet geek than a writer, because of all the time I spend on my spreadsheet with many tabs charting publications I'm tracking, submission history, and cross-referencing poems and where they've been sent. It's even spawned a second spreadsheet to manage bundles. I love a good spreadhseet!
I have had to withdraw poems a few times. One was from a prestigious journal that never even acknowledged the withdrawal and eventually rejected all with a curt form rejection after nine months. The other times it benefitted my remaining poems and in both cases it raised the submission in the eyes of the editor, and another poem in each bundle was selected. One even said as much! I didn't say where they were accepted because I didn't think it was relevant and nor did they ask.
I don’t think that withdrawing one poem is usually the kiss of death for the whole submission. It could even lend a sense of urgency to reviewing the rest of the submission. (This leads me to something I never understood until recently. So many lit mags ask you to let them know if the submission is simultaneously being submitted elsewhere. I used to think this would prejudice the editors against the work, but now it seems to me that the purpose of the request is so they can act quickly if they love it.)
I’ve offered to replace accepted poems. Nobody ever says yes.
It doesn’t really matter how many poems the magazine will accept unless it’s a contest.
I always name the magazine where the piece has been accepted. We should all be proud of our acceptances.
I can’t speak for poetry editors.
Keeping track of submissions is not difficult. There is a small Excel engine built into Word for making tables. I have a page or so of entries at all times. As I submit, I add a column with the name of the journal at the top, and each submitted poem below in its own box. When I get a rejection or acceptance, I delete that column and run a search for the particular poem or poems in the document. I then send a message or email to each of the other magazines where the poem was submitted and delete the entries in their boxes as I go. This method has worked for me for the last 8 years. (I also add the date of submission in the title box of each column if that submission is not on Submittable. Keeps down confusion and lets me know how long the submission has been out there.
My poem-withdraw process is-- go to my spreadsheet to see where else I submitted the poem; go to each journal's website to see how they handle withdrawals; follow the instructions and say the poem was accepted "elsewhere"; color-code the poem as accepted on my spreadsheet; update the status of the submissions on Chill Sub Tracker. The response from ediotrs is usually congratulatory. Sometimes they accepted another poem from the packet. I don't keep track of that number. Maybe 80-20 accept versus decline the remainder?
Re: keeping track of subs, since that's a hot topic on this thread, I use an Excel spreadsheet. So easy to search, and with hundreds of subs and dozens of pieces, ease is key.
I often have several pieces out to a bunch of mags, and to reduce my stress (especially if it's a poem/micro/flash in a bundle of others—complexity!), I keep lists of each piece, where they're submitted, and those mags' various protocols in the event I need to withdraw. These lists live on my Notes app, conveniently shared to both my computer and iPhone. I also have a basic withdrawal letter ready to go for editors where I can copy/paste the relevant information accordingly. This comes in extremely handy when one is, say, on vacation, without a computer, and an acceptance necessitates withdrawing a piece from ten lit mags who use Submittable, Google forms, Moksha, Oleada, some university uploading system, email, etc.
I write flash fiction and almost never submit multiple pieces at once (unless there’s a monetary incentive or it’s a contest) because it gets so awkward withdrawing them one at a time. Also, maybe this is just me, but i worry once my best story has been accepted elsewhere, the other stories in the submission will look like yesterday’s leftovers.
I have often wondered if journals just reject the rest of the poetry packet once one is withdrawn--but that doesn't seem to be a very good practice does it? I haven't noticed whether or not other poems from the packet tend to be accepted or rejected. I keep an excel sheet too--it seems a lot of poets keep track that way!--and always immediately withdraw a poem from other magazines once it is accepted. I don't name the journal that accepted it because I like to be mysterious.
Ah, yes - changed titles...and my excel is alphabetized by title so I can see potential Sim subs (which I also color code so I don't miss them. I put the old title first in parentheses and the new alongside. I color code waiting-to-hear, rejections, acceptances, and add notes and another color after that column, particularly "we look forward to seeing more work from you" and lit mags where I've been pubbed and I want to sub there again.
I'm a fiction writer, and I've sent of batches of flash fiction or longer stories to mags that accept multiples. I've had mags accept one of a pair or trio. I then go about withdrawing it from consideration elsewhere (I use Duotrope & Chill Subs to track submissions). Magazines state whether they want me to withdraw over the submission platform or via email, and I follow that protocol, but I'm not happy with withdrawing over Submittable. It doesn't give me a "partial withdrawal" option. So, I get B's concern. I suspect a whole batch of three sent via Submittable is tagged "withdrawn" and is pulled from consideration even if I attach a note saying that story "A" and "B" are still available. Do they remain under consideration? Good question. The answer's sure to be magazine/editor specific. So far, I haven't withdrawn one piece and had any of the remaining pieces accepted. I hope more editors chime in on this to enlighten us. As far as letting someone know where a withdrawn piece has been accepted, I'm inconsistent. I do thank them for their understanding, time, and consideration. And I really appreciate the editors who send me congratulatory notes! I feel heard. Thanks for raising this issue, Becky!
Same experiences as @BarbaraKrasner and @poetintheOR....No clue whether it increases, decreases, or does nothing for my chances.
On several occasions, I've had to withdraw a poem or two, only to have one of the lit mags I had to withdraw from reject the others and say they really loved the one I withdrew. Oh well! Guess they should have jumped on it, then. All you can do is move forward.
I keep an Excel sheet with poem title, date submitted, date the mag should respond (estimate usually), Received, In Progress, A(ccepted), R(ejected0, Withdrawn, and occasionally, a ? because they mag didn’t respond as receiving my poems. I only deal in poetry, btw. I highlight simsubs, and highlight acceptances, and withdrawn poems with their own color. The hardest part, is that I’ve submitted to lit mags that don’t use submittable so it is harder to let them know if a poem has been accepted or not, and to even track. While I use Duotrope, I find that is unbelievably clunky for me (I’m old, btw). I haven’t ever mentioned the mag where the poem is accepted, but I might now, based on this conversation, but I always say that X, Y, Z (naming them) are still available for consideration. Sometimes, I get a “congratulations” back, usually if they accept one of the other poems, maybe once when they rejected the rest of the package. Personally, I hate tracking, but it is a necessary evil. I think there must be a poem with this theme, right?
You said, "With a fiction submission, there is just a single document. If it gets accepted elsewhere, you simply withdraw the piece from everywhere else the story is currently out." Where did you get that idea? Have you never submitted multiple pieces of flash fiction or nonfiction as part of a single submission, as most journals allow? Have you never submitted multiple pieces of fiction or nonfiction in response to a call in which a journal allows multiple pieces up to a maximum word limit? It sounds like your analogy is based on rather limited experience.
As for the initial question, my answer is, "to the contrary." When you withdraw a single poem (or piece of fiction or nonfiction or hybrid or photo or, whatever, you are showing the journal that you are responsible. That's positive. It also draws attention to you. When I withdraw a single piece, I'm always careful to say, "The other pieces are still available." At times, when a journal has been overly slow, an initial submission of five pieces might dwindle down to only one or two pieces. At each stage, I withdraw single pieces and say X Y and Z are still available. In a few cases, I've gone so far as to say, "They're going fast. Better act soon." Now and then, with photos, when I've withdrawn one image, I've offered possible replacements. Once, when I offered four possible replacements for a single photo, the journal--which is highly respected--responded, "We've never done this before, but we'll take all four," which made me the featured artist Bottom line, acting like a responsible citizen by withdrawing a piece that is accepted elsewhere brings attention to you in a positive way. If anything, it puts you in a positive light. Do not fear looking like you're a responsible citizen.
I'll only say that it's my experience only about one out of twenty magazines using Submittable EVER respond to a message.
Thanks so much, Becky, for opening up this subject, and such a great response already! My two cents:
- Withdrawals = the Kiss of Death? I cannot say for sure, but very much doubt it.
- No, I don’t name the publication that has accepted the poem.
- No, I never offer a replacement poem.
- I’d be utterly lost without my Excel sheet: 1st column – titles; 2nd – how many items of which genre (e.g. 5 poems); 3rd – name of publication; 4th – method of submission (e.g. Submittable or email); 5th – date submitted; 6th – rejected or accepted; 7th – date of rejection/acceptance; 8th – misc. comments (e.g. very nice rejection, i.e. sub again). This helps make the withdrawal process relatively fast and simple.
Kiss of death usually for me. And the rejection often comes quickly after withdrawal.
I submit to many magazines and contests. Almost all say to be notified of acceptance somewhere else, and to withdraw the accepted piece. None have said that the other entries are affected. Also, since the submission date has likely passed, a new submission is too late. Also, each submission is considered as a separate entry, so previous entries re not affected.
I recently had a story I'd been sending out for quite a good while with no takers accepted by two publications within a few weeks of each other. I was a bit late informing the second publication and about the previous acceptance. I felt remiss and wasn't sure how to proceed. I sat myself down to face the music. I thanked the second journal for their acceptance wrote a genuinely apologetic note regarding my tardiness. They replied with a note of congratulations and wished me luck. I feel redeemed and delighted at their kind response.
This does sometimes apply to prose writers, when they submit several flash pieces to a single journal (something we do at Submitit with our flash packages). One of the concerns mentioned was if withdrawing one piece hurts the others' chances. We haven't been submitting flash packages for long enough to know for sure about this, but we did recently have a client get three stories (submitted as a group) accepted to three different journals. Each time one of the stories was accepted (and in this case, oddly, it was always only one piece accepted from among the group), we withdrew that piece from pending journals (usually in a message on Submittable or in an email (and, no, we didn't mention the accepting journal's name)). And he still managed to get all three pieces accepted (he's a solid writer, by the way). So my guess—and, again, it's still just a guess at this point—is that withdrawing one piece doesn't hurt the other pieces' chances. But perhaps a better question: Is it worth the headache of keeping track of everything? I'm undecided. I'll do it for clients, but I'm starting to avoid group submissions with my own flash fiction.
Please warn me - - - and I will do the same.
Another crazy lit mag ordeal occurred on January 31, 2024 when a press's founder & funder resigned and the staff explained to me the difficulties he left them to manage, even as he ghosted his own staff.
This turmoil also cancelled one of my book deals since this had been an indie book publisher as well as a producer of lit mags and themed anthologies. Ironically, their current antho is on mental illness and the instability caused.
No doubt Becky Tuch will feature that lit mag debacle soon enough.
On no less than three occasions, when I withdrew a poem from consideration via SUBMITTABLE, this happened to me: the poem was accepted and then I had to scramble thru my own handwritten notes to back up details on the date when I had withdrawn it.
Each time the editors said that the note had not shown up in SUBMITTABLE.
Can this really be true???
As a poet who submits poems for consideration every single day, why can't SUBMITTABLE do its job - - instead of giving me more agita is what I want to know.
Since I submit my writing every day, I've learned to rely on my own indispensable writer's journal to keep track because these submission platforms have flaws.
I don’t run open poetry submissions, so my point of view is limited. However, since pieces being cancelled/schedules changing is a feature of most periodicals, I can tell you that not notifying an editor of a change right away is a bad idea. No matter your rationale, you don’t want to mess with an editor’s schedule. If an editor accepts a piece only to be told it was accepted elsewhere and you didn’t mention it, your name would probably be remembered for unprofessionalism. The world of lit mag editors isn’t that large and they talk.
The plus side is that since it is a common occurrence, all you have to do is notify the editor and you’re fine. Don’t submit an alternate poem unless they ask. It’s unlikely to negatively impact the editor’s view of your other work, because it’s part of normal business. Personally, I wouldn’t name drop the magazine who accepted first unless I already had a relationship with the recipient. At best, it’s irrelevant, plus it might be read as cockiness. Not disqualifying, but never a good look.
I make it easy on myself. I typically submit to lit mags that don’t accept simultaneous submissions. I use my own tracking system (not infallible) and SUBMITTABLE.
Eh, I just send to journals with a fast or at least reasonable turn-around times. By fast, I mean two weeks or less, and by reasonable, I mean three to six weeks. Six to eight weeks is pushing it. Anything beyond that, it's highly doubtful I'll send work. I find this a good way to balance my disdain for book-keeping with getting work published in fairly short order at some venue or another where I'm cool with having it appear. And, given there are good number of outlets that provide such response times, I don't really feel limited in terms of options.
The majority of prose pieces I submit are flash fiction or flash creative nonfiction. As with poems, most literary journals allow one to submit 2 or 3 at a time, usually in a single document. I have, on occasion, had to withdraw a single submission without incurring obvious repercussions. In fact, one journal sent me a note via submittable to thank me for informing them and congratulated me on my acceptance elsewhere.
Also, rather than withdraw and resubmit a piece, I've twice submitted requests to edit a piece, via submittable. That way, one doesn't begin the whole submission process all over again with "Received" and retains the "In Process" status. Both requests were met with polite notes allowing me to do so.
For me, I've avoided simsubs like the plague because its stressful, but in a very few selections that I thought were a great match I did, and a very few were accidents while I was still learning my system. So the one time something was picked up left a very not good taste in my mouth and I do consider it the kiss of death, though I will still make sure I am always courteous and withdraw, as long as my system accounts for it.
My submission had been in submittable for months with no change to in progress (though I know sometimes it can be read without that) and literally a day after I withdrew one piece I received a full rejection. Now, what I like to think happened is that they were seriously considering that piece and had already decided against the other so there was no point in holding everything. But what it felt like is that they completely forgot about me and when I withdrew a piece they were a bit petty and just discarded the whole thing without consideration. Unfortunately the other place folded, not letting us know for too long and it never got published.
I personally would never tell a place where it was accepted. What if they had beef with the other publication?
This year I have increased my simsubs and its an absolute nightmare to keep track of. I don't know how others do it. I don't plan to keep it up for long, only while I have to for a few select pieces that have time expirations and so would benefit from simsubbing, but once I do I don't think I will continue at this rate. Its unpleasant.
Here is my tracking system:
a database type spreadsheet
-all pieces, submissions, publishers go in their own spreadsheet which cross reference each other. I mark the submissions submitted rejected simsub etc. along with a lot of other information
-I have one database view which is just checkmarks to make sure I put it everywhere
a google doc
-every piece goes in it in alphabetical order where after each link to the piece in my folder I put simply rejected, active (for first times), re-submitted, accepted, sim sub with a color code,
grinder
-use like grinder
submittable
-I track non submittables there as well
email
-I email myself a copy of the submission, I tag all of them by publisher, name, what it is (submission receipt, rejection, communication, acceptance) and give it a little icon based on what it is.
If i didn't do all of this my head would spin in confusion and now with more sim subs I feel like I need to do something different but I don't know what.